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Fitting Sample Modeling Brass with everything else

Discussion in 'SAMPLE Talk' started by Lawson., Dec 3, 2015.

  1. resound

    resound Senior Member

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    Oct 29, 2015
    Los Angeles, CA
    An increase of 3db is twice as much power, not twice as much volume. It actually takes an increase of 10db for a perceived doubling of volume.

    I have to agree with the others, I think it is a bad idea to compress all of your VIs by default. You should be able to get a good mix using appropriate velocities and/or CC values in combination with good reverb settings.
     
  2. resound

    resound Senior Member

    466
    239
    Oct 29, 2015
    Los Angeles, CA
    I listened to your mockup of The Planets and it is obvious that you used compression because it sounds very squashed and unnatural. You are right that great engineers like Maserati use lots of compression on vocals, but that is in a pop music context. You have to squash the vocals to get them to sit on top of the mix when there are a bunch of distorted guitars, heavy synth and drums smashing under the vocal. That use of compression is standard in pop music (and that's why everything on the radio is the same volume) but it is not appropriate in orchestral music. You aren't going to mix an orchestra the same way you would mix a rock band. Unless you don't want the orchestra to sound like an orchestra.
     
  3. hanstheman

    hanstheman New Member

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    Jul 18, 2016
    I just want to add to everything that has been said so far -
    REMEMBER to do proper stereo imaging otherwise it will not sound right! Blakus mentioned it in the videos but didn't stress the importance enough!
    I did everything as in the video but not untill I added waves s1 stereo imager and narrowed the stereo field did the samplemodeling horn start to sound right! Waves s1 also offers the possibility to rotate the stereo field, I don't know if this is any better than a normal pan/balance change.
    So my chain is :
    kontakt (samplemodeling horns)
    eq roll-off (hi pass),
    b2 reverb as in video,
    stereo imaging.
    Then of course a reverb send to b2 with the berlin hall duo den version.
    I'm sure it can be optimized further but stereo imaging truly did wonders.
    I also think it can make other reverbs sound acceptable.
    Also I should add that you can get b2 for 50% off in case you are a student.
     
  4. Leeward

    Leeward Senior Member

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    44
    Aug 2, 2015
    This is not related as I don't use any of the Sample Modeling brass (yet!) but I can definitely put forward an endorsement for B2 (thanks to Blakus on that one!). I love it. I send it to every instrument to varying degrees and finish everything with a Valhalla Room glue - so everything is algorithmic but I love the sound.
     
  5. DANIELE

    DANIELE Senior Member

    Hi all, while I'm trying to make SM Brass (especially horns) sounds huge, I'm looking for a reverb to use for that purpose and for a realistic purpose.
    I'd like in the future to compose like the mockup posted on the previous page, but I don't know how to achieve those results. So is finally B2 reverb the way to go?
    Do you have some template or config file to share to try it with SM brass?

    I have two purposes:

    1. look at the thread linked up here;
    2. make them sounds like a real orchestra brass to compose music like John Williams (as reference).
    The real question, beside the right reverb plugin, is which settings I have to use within the SM libraries themselves. I don't know if I have to use the Virtual Soundstage page or if I have to bypass it and use only an external reverb with VSS. If I use VSS using the distance knob is useless I think.

    And finally, why a High Pass filter? At what frequency do I have to cut? From what I know high frequencies are the first ones that dies going far from the source.

    Thank you for your help.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  6. wbacer

    wbacer Senior Member

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    292
    Feb 4, 2014
    Check out Mike Verta's class on, "Template Balancing."
    He shows step my step how to get all of the orchestral sections to blend and complement each other just like in a real orchestra. There is a segment that addresses Samplemodeling Horns, Trumpets, Trombones and Tuba.
    https://mikeverta.com/product/online-masterclass-template-balancing/
    I applied all of Mike's suggestions in my template and it works.
    Description
    To be most useful, our virtual orchestras need to behave like real ones. With a properly balanced template, real-world orchestrations work virtually, which lends realism to our music and improves our orchestration skill. In this class, we’ll cover template balancing, and how various articulations should sound when properly dynamic (e.g., the loudest pizz strings are much quieter than bowed ones). We’ll talk about the differences between small and large groups, and look at how mixing techniques play a role in getting the proper sound and feel.
     
    DANIELE likes this.
  7. DANIELE

    DANIELE Senior Member

    Someone already talked me about this course. In fact I want to buy it but I didn't have time to watch it so I'm waiting for a better moment.

    Thank you for your advice, I hope he show SM brass settings too.

    In the mean time I bought B2 because is on sale.

    EDIT
    why if I use Blakus settings on B2 I'm not having the same graphic results as him?

    My brass sounds orrible.

    If I put 1 sec for the time the up-left graph show me 0.5 sec. :confused:

    Moreover there's no Hi C SF in the menu under EQ knob.

    I'm doing something wrong...
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  8. ZeeCount

    ZeeCount Senior Member

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    May 16, 2015
    New Zealand
  9. DANIELE

    DANIELE Senior Member

    Thank you so much. As I said earlier I have a strange problem, in the up left graph it shows 0.5 sec with a time of 1 sec. It seems it shows the half of what I set.

    Here's a screenshot:
    [​IMG]
     
  10. ZeeCount

    ZeeCount Senior Member

    91
    38
    May 16, 2015
    New Zealand
    B2 does that for me to. The time knob is setting the RT60 of the reverb, which is the time it takes for the reverb tail to drop by 60 dB.
     
  11. DANIELE

    DANIELE Senior Member

    OK, the doubt arose from the fact that in the video of Blackus the curve is seen to end at 1 sec.
    In general all the graph is different, maybe he was using an older version...I don't know.

    With these settings I don't have as much reverb as him, the sound is dryer. I own the expansions too and I'm using VSS too. I set up Berlin Hall for send reverb and this for insert and I'm not able to achieve that sound.
     
  12. DANIELE

    DANIELE Senior Member

    How did you get this?
     

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