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EW Voices of Opera...Opinions?

OP
Parsifal666

Parsifal666

I don't even own a DAW, I'm just a troll.
Back in the 90's there is this band called Steelheart and the dude pulls of a G above tenor high C in a song known as Angel Eyes or Never Let You Go.
That was falsetto, not true voice. And that goes for a lot of those supersonic rock singers (Plant, Gillan, King Diamond, etc.)...besides guys like Ronnie Dio and Graham Bonnet, who were more chest-pull oriented in technique and rarely took the easy fake-out.

Actually, Dio and Bonnet were supernaturally high for male singers of any stripe (pretty sure Dio hit Eb over C a number of times full voice, while Bonnet hit a few yoweling As)...so they're the exception to the falsettic rule lol.
 
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danbo

Active Member
There are so many singers who have remote recording services, that I would use something like that over a library.
Have you done this? Do you have links for any singers who do this? How does the recording work, you would need to pay for a studio too I assume? Costs?

But..... I get that people get a kick out of the software stuff. The results are better, and takes much less time in my experience.
Well again students and composer cloud - and also $200 is cheaper than any singer you might pay surely. It's all cost, cost cost. Heck, I work in game music, the AAA's are investing in deep learning systems that reliably reproduce spoken lines, so they don't have to pay a voice actor. About half the time or something they'll front live musicians, but not infrequently want it all VI. At the moment working on a indie game which has budget for all sampled.
 

MartinH.

Senior Member
Heck, I work in game music, the AAA's are investing in deep learning systems that reliably reproduce spoken lines, so they don't have to pay a voice actor.
I have trouble imagining that to actually be cheaper on the bottom line, considering the voice actors don't get paid a lot and don't get any royalties. I would imagine this has more to do with "risk mitigation", considering the voice actors went on strike once iirc and tried to get a royalties deal going or something like that. Also some voice actors have in the past leaked names of titles being worked on so they stopped telling some of the VA's what they're actually recording lines for, leading to even worse performances because they aren't properly briefed. Iirc Fallout 4 had a voice actor in it in a not minor role, who was a fan of the series and knew a lot about it, but wasn't told he's recording for Fallout 4, so he somewhat missed the tone that he'd given it otherwise. A sad situation all around. I strongly doubt AI is gonna lead to a better product in the end. If you can point me to any articles or similar about the AI voiceover work, I'd be interested in learning some about the technical details though.
 

Morodiene

Senior Moment
And they are lower on the food chain. Ab above that C (min 6th) is about the top of
standard Opera repetoire. Thomas Ades, has an A (maj 6 above high C) in his Opera, but only 2-3 people can pull that off.

Offenbach's “Les Contes d'Hoffmann", which still gets performed regularly has the Ab in the doll song.
I've seen it a few times at the Met.
But that's not written in the score for Tales. That's just what some sopranos sing. Even if I had the A above high C, I would never sing a piece that required it. There's a reason that great composers didn't write that for the voice - and it's not that they didn't have the people who could do it back then. Just because you *can* do something, doesn't mean you should LOL
 

kitekrazy

Senior Member
That was falsetto, not true voice. And that goes for a lot of those supersonic rock singers (Plant, Gillan, King Diamond, etc.)...besides guys like Ronnie Dio and Graham Bonnet, who were more chest-pull oriented in technique and rarely took the easy fake-out.

Actually, Dio and Bonnet were supernaturally high for male singers of any stripe (pretty sure Dio hit Eb over C a number of times full voice, while Bonnet hit a few yoweling As)...so they're the exception to the falsettic rule lol.
Nope. Listen to the song.
 
OP
Parsifal666

Parsifal666

I don't even own a DAW, I'm just a troll.
Nope. Listen to the song.
I feel kind of embarrassed saying this, but the singer himself said it was falsetto (he's done instructional videos). Or perhaps you're having me on, my friend.

You can hear where his actual tenor leaves and the falsetto comes in, the producer did what most do at the falsetto stage: double or triple the part to make up for the decrease in volume.

Anyone whose produced more than one recording in the Rock genre can tell this....I'll just go on thinking you're having me on, because this shows a radical ignorance of Rock vocal techniques. The difference is obvious, try slowing the recording down maybe. Or take a nap before you listen.
 
OP
Parsifal666

Parsifal666

I don't even own a DAW, I'm just a troll.
"I'll never let you go, so I must go falsetto...
you're the only I want, so I huff some helium,
or else I'll never squeak this high again...."
 

kitekrazy

Senior Member
I feel kind of embarrassed saying this, but the singer himself said it was falsetto (he's done instructional videos). Or perhaps you're having me on, my friend.

You can hear where his actual tenor leaves and the falsetto comes in, the producer did what most do at the falsetto stage: double or triple the part to make up for the decrease in volume.

Anyone whose produced more than one recording in the Rock genre can tell this....I'll just go on thinking you're having me on, because this shows a radical ignorance of Rock vocal techniques. The difference is obvious, try slowing the recording down maybe. Or take a nap before you listen.
Still it's pretty impressive to hit that in falsetto. Where does he say it's falsetto?
 

Morodiene

Senior Moment
Still it's pretty impressive to hit that in falsetto. Where does he say it's falsetto?
Men should be able to sing in falsetto at least an octave above the highest note they sing in full voice. I wasn't sure where in the song it was, and the highest note I heard was a g-flat - was that it? It wasn't falsetto on the pure sense, if that was the note in question, but @Parsifal666 may be using the term a bit more loosely than I do.
 

douggibson

Active Member
But that's not written in the score for Tales. That's just what some sopranos sing. Even if I had the A above high C, I would never sing a piece that required it. There's a reason that great composers didn't write that for the voice - and it's not that they didn't have the people who could do it back then. Just because you *can* do something, doesn't mean you should LOL
Have listen to Audrey Luna:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/07/arts/music/metropolitan-opera-high-note-exterminating-angel.html

I agree with what you are saying BTW. 9 out of 10 times when I hear a composer say they don't get why Mozart is so highly revered, I can tell they don't listen to Opera.

Barbara Hannigan once gave me a three page document on how best to write for Soprano's
https://www.barbarahannigan.com/

I should see if I still have it.

Back to this thread........ I wonder how long it would take me, and if even possible to mock-up some of my works for soprano.

 

douggibson

Active Member
Have you done this? Do you have links for any singers who do this? How does the recording work, you would need to pay for a studio too I assume? Costs?
Google is your friend. I don't want to give links here, as I don't want it to look like I am endorsing any particular company. I use musicians I know personally 9 out 10, but yes I have had clients that we had to use remote recording of singers. It was more popular style, but still the essence was the same.

Basically you are hiring tech savy enough people who have a laptop and their own vocal set up.
They deliver the stems which you can edit and mix/master as you wish.

As I mentioned: I have my biases and my goals are not for everyone. I would not work on project that would not hire real musicians*....so ....... I may not be of any help to anyone here.

(*but I have been there*. I just made a promise years ago I would move beyond, and I am very happy with career in that people only approach me with live situations.)
 

Breaker

Member
That was falsetto, not true voice. And that goes for a lot of those supersonic rock singers (Plant, Gillan, King Diamond, etc.)...besides guys like Ronnie Dio and Graham Bonnet, who were more chest-pull oriented in technique and rarely took the easy fake-out.

Actually, Dio and Bonnet were supernaturally high for male singers of any stripe (pretty sure Dio hit Eb over C a number of times full voice, while Bonnet hit a few yoweling As)...so they're the exception to the falsettic rule lol.
It's not really that simple. The line between falsetto and head voice is quite blurred with male rock singers who have perfected this technique and that's why people are using terms like "super head voice" and "reinforced falsetto". Plant was the pioneer in this (well, until he ruined his voice somewhere between III and IV) and Steelheart's Miljenko Matijevic uses similar technique to hit the high notes (he goes to B5 in "Love Ain't Easy").

Quite off-topic, but definitely more interesting than EW's Voices of the Opera :P
 

Wolfie2112

Senior Member
Back in the 90's there is this band called Steelheart and the dude pulls of a G above tenor high C in a song known as Angel Eyes or Never Let You Go.
Ah yes, that's Miljenko Matijevic (also sang for Malmsteen at one point). He also did the vocals for Steel Dragon...the fictional band in the movie Rock Star. He is an amazing singer!
 

Morodiene

Senior Moment
Have listen to Audrey Luna:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/07/arts/music/metropolitan-opera-high-note-exterminating-angel.html

I agree with what you are saying BTW. 9 out of 10 times when I hear a composer say they don't get why Mozart is so highly revered, I can tell they don't listen to Opera.

Barbara Hannigan once gave me a three page document on how best to write for Soprano's
https://www.barbarahannigan.com/

I should see if I still have it.

Back to this thread........ I wonder how long it would take me, and if even possible to mock-up some of my works for soprano.

Ya, that's just crazy, and not sure it's a good thing to ask of a soprano to do. You can see this soprano has to constrict to reach the note. You can see her sternomastoid muscles in front (which attach to the sternum) contract. This is not healthy and over time will get worse and cause issues in the rest of her voice.

Whether this is the result of singing a high A, or a faulty technique on her part, it's hard to say. I have a dramatic coloratura student who vocalises up to a high B-flat without this constriction. But knowing that composers like Mozart who had access to singers of this voice type that could most likely sings these pitches did not take advantage of them tells me there is at least very little reason musically to use it in a song.
 

kitekrazy

Senior Member
Men should be able to sing in falsetto at least an octave above the highest note they sing in full voice. I wasn't sure where in the song it was, and the highest note I heard was a g-flat - was that it? It wasn't falsetto on the pure sense, if that was the note in question, but @Parsifal666 may be using the term a bit more loosely than I do.
Back in the day when I could sing a high C I doubt I could do an octave above in falsetto. I do not think tenors do not have a good falsetto as baritones.

Yeah that so called falsetto sounds really good from that singer.
 

kitekrazy

Senior Member
Ah yes, that's Miljenko Matijevic (also sang for Malmsteen at one point). He also did the vocals for Steel Dragon...the fictional band in the movie Rock Star. He is an amazing singer!
Ya think! There are some live videos where he's still up there.
 
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