Eric Whitacre Choir

Discussion in 'SAMPLE Talk' started by jneebz, Oct 25, 2018.

  1. ism

    ism Senior Member

    Dec 14, 2016

    I’ve been wondering this myself. But the cost - and risk - of developing and supporting and maintaining a new sampler surely can’t compare to a $15 player fee on $600 libraries.? It’s curious that Spitfire hasn’t really talked much about the new engine on a technical level. But we do know is:

    i. It’s based on Han’s proprietary sampling technology. which I think means that we can assume that it’s focus is exclusively on orchestral sampling. NI is 90% about electronic music, so much, probably most, of the focus for Kontakt is on non-orchestral functionality. The choir is only the second library build using it (excepting labs), and as Spitfire apparently don’t like to go into all the techie details, it’s hard to say what the full bennefits of this is. But you have to think that if Han’s could have just used Kontakt instead of building his own sampler, he probably would have. And Spitfire as a company is (by some accounts) practically built on learning from whatever is is that Han’s does when records samples. So there has to be something interesting going on in Hans’ proprietary sampler right?

    ii. Kontakt has massive legacy code, and a massive number of legacy libraries, which makes innovating without breaking older libraries immensely expensive. Even if there were no immediate bennefits of the new sampler over Kontakt, if it’s the intention of Spitfire (or Hans) is to really push innovation in specifically orchestral sampling forward, being free from this kind of legacy complexities is a huge advantage benefit.

    iii. It’s been a long time between Kontakt 5 and 6. And it’s not even clear to me how orchestrally focused the innovations in Kontakt 6 are, a lot of the look kind of synth-focused, on the surface at least. So if we’re at a point that innovation in orchestral libraries needs innovation at the sample level, waiting on Kontakt may or may not be a great idea. And how much better could a library like SCS be with existing Kontakt technology?

    iv. I also have a sense that the critical thing limiting sample libraries in recent years has been disk speed RAM. But there a a few hints that going forward it’s going to be processing power. In the coming years people are going to have a lot more processing power available (in the form of many cores, maybe GPUs, maybe even ‘neuromorphic’ chips which are basically a form of hardware accelerated mostly-linear algebra). As modeling techniques become more important (the progressive vibrato on the new virtuoso violin is maybe a hint of the direction of innovations to come), being able to push a sampler forward quickly becomes even more important.

    I did see one video on HZS that compared it to SCS and a few other libs, which made the interesting observation that dynamic crossfade on HZS was very different. Otherwise the reviews were all preoccupied by responding to ... other things ... and didn’t seem to pay much attention to this kind if thing. But maybe this is a hint of the benefits of the new sampler?

    Just my impressions, of course.

    if anyone has thoughts on what the Spitfire engine brings to the choir. I’d love to hear them.
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  2. ism

    ism Senior Member

    Dec 14, 2016
    I guess I’d add that we know, through a vlog by Christian, that part of the agenda is control of the interaction design. And there’s a politics to this, in that as sample libraries become more mainstream, and hopefully used by a greater diversity of people, controlling the interaction design is about a lot more than making it pretty.
  3. babylonwaves

    babylonwaves Senior Member

    May 9, 2015
    looking at previous SF kontakt libs, there was a need to combine multiple instruments to get all articulations on one channel. the same for having like 10 mics and loads of articulations in one instrument. those are practical limit (of their kontakt instruments) they can overcome with a proprietary instrument.
    ism likes this.
  4. playz123

    playz123 Senior Member

    Nov 7, 2011
    Nanaimo, BC
    One word: "Gorgeous". I've been totally immersed in both the choir patches and the Evo library for hours now, and IMHO it's probably the best choir library for my purposes that I have ever purchased. And for the record, I have at least 8 other choir libraries....all from well-known developers. No, it does not offer some of the features other libraries do, BUT then again, in turn it is not designed to compete, rather to enhance. More importantly, what it DOES do is provide sounds and features other libraries simply do not have. Beautifully crafted, and awe-inspiring and captivating sounds truly reflect Mr. Whitacre's approach towards choral music. If you are looking for epic, then of course, look elsewhere. But if you want a choir library that has the potential to transport you to a softer, more gentle and moody place, then this choir is definitely worth considering. Finally, I have most of the libraries Spitfire has released, and feel this is definitely one of the top 3. Well done, Spitfire; you 'nailed it' this time! We waited patiently for a long time for its release, and the wait has been worth it.

    As for the discussion above, I'll just say, that with most libraries, I suggest the only people who are really able to assess them properly are the ones who actually purchase them and work with them. I honestly am not drawn to posts with comments such as "I don't need it" or "I'm not buying it", and feel those comments only enhance someone's post count and contribute nothing towards the discussion of the product. As for the rest...well I'm an just old guy whose opinion may not matter much anymore, so maybe it's best if I refrain from restating things that have already been said. :)
    mike753, nas, Saxer and 7 others like this.
  5. Geoff Grace

    Geoff Grace Senior Member

    Apr 15, 2009


    windyweekend likes this.
  6. JEPA

    JEPA Senior Member

    Mar 10, 2018
    good point! if the library were on Kontakt, everybody must invest €400 for Kontakt, €500 or more for the choir = almost €1000.... that's on the business view of things a smart move...
  7. Jediwario1

    Jediwario1 Composer

    Apr 18, 2015
    New Zealand
    Not really, as a lot of the Spitfire libraries run in Kontakt Player (which is free).
  8. JEPA

    JEPA Senior Member

    Mar 10, 2018
    then not... :), bad move...
  9. ism

    ism Senior Member

    Dec 14, 2016
    Not quite - a player library the cost developer ~ $15 per library, which is included in the price you pay. So no good for labs. And if you buy 20 player libraries, you're paying ~$300.
  10. jbuhler

    jbuhler Senior Member

    Jun 19, 2016
    I find this library quite lovely, but perhaps you can help me sort through this. Maybe because of the demos I've heard and where the focus of the conversation has been I'm mistaken, but it seems to me like this library is a very useful supplement to a core choir sound you'd get from other libraries. That is, it gives an expansive richness in a particular area of the choir but it doesn't really give you the base, core choral sound. So my question would be can this library serve as that core or is it better to be looking at other libraries for that? I should add that I'm not looking for epic. I already have that covered well enough.
  11. germancomponist

    germancomponist Senior Member

    Jul 11, 2007
    Is this bull... bla bla bla... going on again? This library sounds great, and any professional composer who likes this good sound will buy this lib.
    I do not care on which player the lib works on, the main thing is that I can import this sound into my compositions.
    Spitfire primarily produces sample libraries for professionals. And they do this very well!
  12. sostenuto

    sostenuto Big NKS Fan !

    Mar 10, 2017
    St George, UT USA
    No winning position here ! Up to each individual if they prefer to stay with one, or few, or many.
    Some brilliant talents here, but others (like me) are challenged to learn and utilize one system well, versus skimming the surface with several. I will be long gone before becoming a capable Kontakt5 /6 User.
    Sample Fuel has drawn me into HALion Sonic SE 3. Lots of tiddly questions to deal with (NOT SF!), and not likely adding more HALion content. UVI somewhat similar.
    Hey ….. likely my personal limitations, but not going further with non-Kontakt libs until valid reasons why it makes sense.
    EWC superb contributions may be a sacrifice, but so be it.
    (fwiw, I have a notable number of SFA Libs and delighted with all of them)
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2018
  13. neblix

    neblix Music, Math, Cats

    Jul 22, 2010
    Philadelphia, PA
    I find this library tailored to my exact needs for the kind of music I write. The sample quality and expression are wonderful. As others have said, it handles clusters very well.

    I did a short doodle this morning just to test out the sound. I am only using the Close mics and my own reverb sends (as I do for all my music, since it makes blending libraries from different developers much easier).

    Here it is again, more blended into a mix. Strings are Spitfire Chambers (still just close mics, my own reverb):

    If the long tails sound odd to you it's because there's a bit of Valhalla Shimmer in the ambient send. I like a little sound design-y flavor to my stuff. :)
  14. quantum7

    quantum7 I'm 50's all over!

    A little OT, but do you notice the added power of your i9 10 core over an i7 6 core? On my recent build I stayed with an i7 6 core, but made sure that my new motherboard can accommodate the fastest i9 I can afford if I so choose later on.
  15. quantum7

    quantum7 I'm 50's all over!

    I can't compare the 2 since I haven't purchased Spitfire's choir yet, but I can say that Insolidus is incredible!
    Vastman, MillsMixx and sostenuto like this.
  16. MillsMixx

    MillsMixx Production Director/Sound Designer

    Jan 23, 2015
    Not sure this if anyone has seen this yet or if it's already been posted but here's a detailed look at the library I found searching YouTube.

  17. Daniel James

    Daniel James Senior Member

    Jan 9, 2008
    Beautiful tone! worth the wait.

  18. Vastman

    Vastman we make the future

    My last i7 6 core was a 4340k... the I9 is like having double the power...of course, it's $1000! Still, I'm very pleased... my dream machine, really. Here's a comparison...fwiw... you can Google yours vs the i9 9700x...

    I upgraded after selling my bay area farm and moving up north to help mom in her final year...wanted thunderbolt for latency as I was sick of the delays..echoes on echoes, vocally! Also wanted the ability to drive 2 large 4k oleds because of my old eyes! Man, nothing like a 65in OLED! Just decided to splurge and get the best cpu last March...didnt wanna think about it or do it again! Btw, it's STILL the best CPU for the money!

    I can't imagine EVER needing another maschine. I throw tons of CPU heavy stuff at it and it just purrrrs along. Had Jim Roseberry of Purrrrfect Audio build it. Cleanist build I've ever seen, quiet and wicked fast and full of m.2/regular SSD's and hot swappables...A dream machine! still have the 4930 as an emergency backup

    DO YA NEED IT? Don't know! I DO know my 4930 was chokable...and a problem child. For me, it is a no brainer! Then again, I wank on CPU sucking VST's like DIVA, Omnisphere Multies that frack Skippie's machine, and love creating big Kontakt multies! Luv me some prety heavy effects too like those from Zynaptiq and Fabfilter's 8 or 16x's oversampling can get a bit rough on mortal maschines. So for me, it's perfect... let's me follow my bliss without a hiccup...EVER!
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2018
  19. Vastman

    Vastman we make the future

    OT handles this fine! And we loose the ability to set up Multies combining different libraries! Combining Olafur's chamber evolution with his Evolutions, SWARM and a few others are just ecstatic! Maybe the macho mega template orchestrators laugh at this but songwriting multies are just wonderful! Oh well...

    I DO luv the library! Don't get me wrong... and will use it loads...mucked around a bit more with it and TM and adore THEM BOTH. However I found myself wanting to save some of the combinations of these libraries as a multi and couldn't! Guess I'll have to start using Studio One's multi system....finally! Just glad much of what I like using is already in Kontakt and, financially it might help limit my future Spitfire GAS to ONLY very unique expressive creations that sweep me away (yum!:grin:)

    Good night!
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2018
  20. Puzzlefactory

    Puzzlefactory Senior Member

    Nov 22, 2016
    I noticed there was no thread from Spitfire about this. Have they left the forum all together now? (I know Paul and Christian had)...

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