Embertone Releases: Walker 1955 Steinway 'D'

lumcas

Active Member
I don't mind the update isn't released yet, but the lack of communication is alarming. Just one short post every week would do it. Well yes, you can always shoot an email, but I'd expect a more official announcement e.g., that you have to rename your nki to make the library work again. I discovered this here by chance.

It's always hard to earn a customer's trust back.
 
They had a holiday sale recently and did just that in the post in this very forum. They even offered to send anyone a beta version with half pedaling if it was needed before the official update was ready. I recall them saying the half pedaling was relatively easy but there were lots of little things that needed cleaning up that were more time intensive than expected. You can probably search for the thread and find it. You could also always shoot them an email.
Yeah, they promised that, I already ask for beta patch in November. They answer was very positive. Guess what. Nothing. I still try to keep my positive attitude about it.
 
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Fleer

Feeding the Trolls
I’m looking at it this way.
Am I happy Embertone released Walker when they did?
Oh yeah.
Would I have preferred them to postpone its release until they added half pedaling?
Hell no.
So I’m happy, very happy ‘cause I can play this amazing instrument while they’re working on an update. Don’t mind if they do and don’t mind if they take their time.
 

HardyP

Active Member
@Fleer and @Funkybot ,
You both have valid arguments, and I agree to a certain point - I bought it "as it was", and are happy with it, they had a great sale, and so on. I was just pointing out their shift/degradation in terms of communication and tight contact. And, as a side note, beside the undisputed quality of the product, we also buy from a company because of the trust you have in them in terms of ongoing development and their approach of "living instruments".
My last point - I think a forum like this is not necessary, if we only praise the developers no matter what they do. A certain push/pull from the market (in polite and fair manners, no question!) is always needed and of benefit for both sides.
 

Mystic

Senior Member
Plus, the half-pedaling thing was an addition they weren't really counting on which means they are likely working on it at the same time as the next library as they have several libraries lined up to develop probably stretching at least 2 years in advance so instead of focusing all energy into the new one with minimal bug fixing on previous, they now have to split efforts into adding in a new, difficult feature. That is going to take time.
 

Phryq

AlbertMcKay.com
Is it possible to simple have the release decay triggered by CC?

Using the down-pedal only samples, wouldn't this sound perfectly real? Can't we do this by just going into the 'wrench' icon section? Full pedal is just an infinite release and half is just... longer release, no?
 

Rogier Vogels

New Member
Most probably, yes -
but that doesn´t mean hat it will be availlable in the foreseeable future :whistling:...
So if you like "as it is", buy it. If not - don´t buy it, it´s as simple as that...
The problem is, you can never know how "it is" without buying it.

Harmaes, with the current issues, I will advice you absolutely not to buy the Walker.
The problem is not only half-pedaling but also pedaling issues in general which makes the piano absolutely unusable, atleast for classical repertoire. I have other piano's without half pedaling with better pedaling behaviour.
However, I think the issue is a hit-and-miss one, as I can not believe that people are enthousiastic about this piano if they have the issues I am experiencing (and multiple other users with me).
Maybe it has to do something with the controller/piano one is using, the repertoire one is playing, if someone is playing 'live' or using it in mixes, I don't know.
 

Rogier Vogels

New Member
Maybe it is more clear with an example. I just recorded a small excerpt of a Nocturne of Chopin in which pedaling is quite essential. Garritan CFX versus Embertone Walker D. To even things out I disabled half-pedaling in the CFX.

Links on Soundcloud:
Garritan CFX
Embertone Walker D
Please beware, I have not set up the Embertone for the best musical output / dynamics etc. And also not my own best musical output but whatever, this is just a quick comparison for pedaling behaviour. ;)

There are obvious flaws in the Embertone where the pedal suddenly 'disappears' / does not catch properly.
 

SGordB

Active Member
Maybe it is more clear with an example. I just recorded a small excerpt of a Nocturne of Chopin in which pedaling is quite essential. Garritan CFX versus Embertone Walker D. To even things out I disabled half-pedaling in the CFX.

Links on Soundcloud:
Garritan CFX
Embertone Walker D
Please beware, I have not set up the Embertone for the best musical output / dynamics etc. And also not my own best musical output but whatever, this is just a quick comparison for pedaling behaviour. ;)

There are obvious flaws in the Embertone where the pedal suddenly 'disappears' / does not catch properly.
I have the Walker and the CFX, and, like you, I love my half pedaling (and the CFX in general). I think the problem with the pedal not “catching” occurs because a piano VI has been set up to require a relatively high controller 64 value and/or deep pedal depression to toggle the sustain on. When I analyze the MIDI of my piano tracks with missed sustains, I can see this every time and easily remedy it by shifting the sustain controller curve data that came too late to the left so that the “on” value comes early enough for the VI. Not that that’s a workable solution, but it does suggest a programming solution. Interestingly, while the Walker is very unforgiving this way — especially, perhaps, for pianists who have been spoiled by the ability to trigger a touch of sustain with any amount of pedal, so no need to use your foot like a plunger every time you want to refresh the sustain — some other sampled pianos without half pedal can be much more tolerant of a light pedal touch (including, judging by your example, the CFX when it’s not in half pedal mode), presumably because they’re programmed to turn the sustain on with a lighter application of pedal.
 

SAM CA

Member
...
... the pedal suddenly 'disappears' / does not catch properly.
Yes! It has nothing to do with your controller or anything. As soon as the harmony gets thicker, notes -in particular low notes- get cut off or completely drop out. I reported the issue couple of months ago.
The library itself sounds great and I love the interface. This is the only problem that I noticed.
 

SAM CA

Member
...When I analyze the MIDI of my piano tracks with missed sustains, I can see this every time and easily remedy it by shifting the sustain controller curve data that came too late to the left so that the “on” value comes early enough for the VI. ...
I can confirm this is not what's causing the cut off and drop outs. I did a number of tests. I even drew the sustain manually with pencil tool on problematic notes to make sure. Hopefully this will be addressed in the update as it's a great piano otherwise.
 

SGordB

Active Member
I can confirm this is not what's causing the cut off and drop outs. I did a number of tests. I even drew the sustain manually with pencil tool on problematic notes to make sure. Hopefully this will be addressed in the update as it's a great piano otherwise.
Then my bad. I thought I'd done that trick with Walker tracks, too, but it's been quite some time since I recorded anything with it.
 

jonnybutter

Active Member
I have the Walker and the CFX, and, like you, I love my half pedaling (and the CFX in general)....
Another angle is, if you don't use a lot of sustain pedal, the problem on the Walker is less of a drawback. But it is one, for sure!
 

bsntn99

New Member
The reason for the abrupt cutoff is due to the programming. The sustain notes do not transition properly to the release samples with the note off signal. This library is a mess in terms of programming, partly because the dev created separate groups of six velocity layers to allow users to select the number of velocity layers they wanted to use. Normally you put all the velocity layers in a single map. Then, just create a lite version as a separate nki. Also, repedalling is poorly scripted and is hit and miss whether it catches or not and tends to unnaturally swell in. Some conditions have two key off sounds. People may like the overall sound of the library, but it needs a lot of improvement in terms of programming.
 

Funkybot

New Member
The reason for the abrupt cutoff is due to the programming. The sustain notes do not transition properly to the release samples with the note off signal. This library is a mess in terms of programming, partly because the dev created separate groups of six velocity layers to allow users to select the number of velocity layers they wanted to use. Normally you put all the velocity layers in a single map. Then, just create a lite version as a separate nki. Also, repedalling is poorly scripted and is hit and miss whether it catches or not and tends to unnaturally swell in. Some conditions have two key off sounds. People may like the overall sound of the library, but it needs a lot of improvement in terms of programming.
That very well may explain the delay.
 

tack

Damned Dirty Ape
There are obvious flaws in the Embertone where the pedal suddenly 'disappears' / does not catch properly.
Your example is exactly my experience playing the Walker, and not even just with this type of classical music. I'm afraid I haven't touched it since my post 7 months ago for this reason. Eagerly anticipating the update when it's released in 2035.

On a more positive note, I'm struck by how much more I like the sound of the Walker compared to the CFX in your example.
 

Pablocrespo

Active Member
Yes, an update about the update would be nice. I have problems with the sustain pedal, and I love the sound and the feel of this piano.