Eating my words - Spitfire.

markleake

Recovering sale addict
People who download Spitfire libraries in Montreal automatically get the ultra secret "Two Steps From Hell" version of the library, not the standard guff the rest of us get.

I want those versions!! :cool:
 
OP
Daniel James

Daniel James

Senior Member
I've recently been watching a video Christian did about being a Fly On The Wall...it's an actual tracking session for a TV series he's composing for...done in Air Studios...when you hear the conductor speak, you can clearly hear how reverberant the room is...it's what makes the sound. Especially for some wind instruments...like the Oboe. If you put an oboe in a tight small room, or very open space, it's going to sound like crap...certain instruments need the acoustics and vibrations of the environment to truly "sing".
Its an amazing room and one of the reasons I am starting to cosy up to the Spitfire sound a little more. Here is a video from the last time I was there, shot from the gallery (so you can see the layout and setup) and you can hear how the strings just fill it!!!

Much like a drug, once you experience it you kind of keep seeking it out.

Unfortunatly I only have this string pad type part shot from up in the gallery, I did give them more fun things to play I promise. I included a link to how it sounded in the mix. (Youtube vid volume is low, soundcloud one is kinda loud. Sorry about that.)


(here is proof I gave them more than pads to play lol. Also you can hear the beautiful tail at the end when they stop playing)


-DJ
 

ism

Senior Member
People who download Spitfire libraries in Montreal automatically get the ultra secret "Two Steps From Hell" version of the library, not the standard guff the rest of us get.

I want those versions!! :cool:
Things like the "Thumpingly abrasive recorders" patch in Albion two.

Or the rare "Dead screeching Zombi Cat" extended technique for oboe a2 in SSW.

Or the viola "Flautandos of Death" articulation in SCS.

That would actually be pretty cool, now that I think of it.
 

markleake

Recovering sale addict
It's the "trailer legato" and "super duper short staccato" articulations on the flutes a9 patch that I'm desperate for.
 
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mikefrommontreal

Active Member
Wow lol. Clearly you haven't seen a lot of their libraries
Maybe. Or you haven't tried enough of what else is out there. ;)

Also, my version of subtle might be different than someone else's, so my initial post might be lacking some context.

It's not an insult to Spitfire. Different brands have different strengths.
 

mikefrommontreal

Active Member
More likely it's a confusion of terms.

There's a kind of subtlety that you get from VSL's willingness to sample 8 dynamic layers, for instance, which is a kind of subtlety that Spitfire isn't going to give you.

If you're like me and think that subtlety doesn't start until your library offers at least 15 types of sul tasto (20 would be better), well that's a totally different kind of subtlety.
I think that's a fair way of putting it. Though it's not just about dynamic layers. Timbre and flexibility also play a part.
Basically if you're writing trailer music, Spitfire is likely most people's "go-to", but for a more classical approach (or even John Williams) I wouldn't necessarily think Spitfire. That's all.
 

ism

Senior Member
I think that's a fair way of putting it. Though it's not just about dynamic layers. Timbre and flexibility also play a part.
Basically if you're writing trailer music, Spitfire is likely most people's "go-to", but for a more classical approach (or even John Williams) I wouldn't necessarily think Spitfire. That's all.
Makes sense. So definitely, for a more classical style, VSL, for instance, or Chris Hein, certainly has more attention to deep sampling to get a particular type of, well I've been called it 'expressiveness', but yes there's clearly a dimension of subtly in that.



But as someone who has no interest in trailer music, I also think that libs like SSW, SCS, OACE, LCO, BDT, SStS, SsS, OS ... and I really could go on ... have a quality of subtlety, especially in their timbre and in the overall ... 'sonority' is the best work I've come up with, but it's much more than merely tone ... that collectively represent for me the pinnacle of human achievement in this kind of subtlety, whatever it may be. And that's before we even mention Tundra.


There are definitely times I'd like to be able to access more of the 'classical' type of subtlety though. But I find it hard to get the former type of subtlety without out sacrificing the latter.

So it's the way a Beethoven String quartet has an incredibly quality of subtlety, which is very different to, and sometimes completely at right angles to, the incredible quality of subtlety in, say, an Olafur Arnalds string quartet.


(With the caveat that Sacconi, is one of the most convincing libraries for Beethoven, insofar as its ever a good idea to even think about the possibility of even attempting Beethoven with samples ).
 
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mikefrommontreal

Active Member
Makes sense. So definitely, for a more classical style, VSL, for instance, or Chris Hein, certainly has more attention to deep sampling to get a particular type of, well I've been called it 'expressiveness', but yes there's clearly a dimension of subtly in that.



But as someone who has no interest in trailer music, I also think that libs like SSW, SCS, OACE, LCO, BDT, SStS, SsS, OS ... and I really could go on ... have a quality of subtlety, especially in their timbre and in the overall ... 'sonority' is the best work I've come up with, but it's much more than merely tone ... that collectively represent for me the pinnacle of human achievement in this kind of subtlety, whatever it may be. And that's before we even mention Tundra.


There are definitely times I'd like to be able to access more of the 'classical' type of subtlety though. But I find it hard to get the former type of subtlety without out sacrificing the latter.

So it's the way a Beethoven String quartet has an incredibly quality of subtlety, which is very different to, and sometimes completely at right angles to, the incredible quality of subtlety in, say, an Olafur Arnalds string quartet.


(With the caveat that Sacconi, is one of the most convincing libraries for Beethoven, insofar as its ever a good idea to even think about the possibility of event attempting a Beethoven mockup).
Exactly. VSL is a good example. I wouldn't use VSL for epic music either (though I'm sure people do), so it's just a question of using the right tool for the style.

I own every cinematic studio product and anxiously awaiting the release of their woodwind program. A program I have never even heard. So you could call me a cinematic fanboy, but even then there are many times that I'll chose my twelve year old VSL SE over it. All I'm saying is that I don't think anyone can deny that Spitfire's bread and butter is creating epic sounding instruments.
 

ism

Senior Member
Exactly. VSL is a good example. I wouldn't use VSL for epic music either (though I'm sure people do), so it's just a question of using the right tool for the style.

I own every cinematic studio product and anxiously awaiting the release of their woodwind program. A program I have never even heard. So you could call me a cinematic fanboy, but even then there are many times that I'll chose my twelve year old VSL SE over it. All I'm saying is that I don't think anyone can deny that Spitfire's bread and butter is creating epic sounding instruments.
CSS, to my ears has a different quality of subtlety again. And I'd generally use words like "smooth" and "creamy" to describe it, partly from the 'studio' sound, and partly from the quality of the legato. There's a wonderful CSS mock up of Elgar that to me epitomizes the particular quality of its subtlety and expressiveness of the cinematic line.

But my point was that there's another dimension of subtlety, in the libraries I mentioned above, which is timbral, and expressive has an emotional component that I wouldn't quite know how to describe, that I don't hear in CSS (lovely though it is), and that has absolutely nothing to with the epic that runs through spitfire libraries.

I mean, some of these libs are probably great for unsubtle epic trailer music also, but I'm not the one to ask about that. Although I know that Daniel rates Albion One (which I regret buying as it tends to be just too thonkingly epic for me, and has no sul tasto) as being quite far on the 'gentle' side of his spectrum. He would probably know.

(Anyone else think that a whole thread on the taxonomy of notions of subtlety might be fun, or is it just me?)
 

jaketanner

Senior Member
here is proof I gave them more than pads to play lol. Also you can hear the beautiful tail at the end when they stop playing
Very cool man...gonna have a listen later tonight. It is a great room, and I know people complain about the ambience, but that's part of the sound...use a different library if you don't want it wet...because the sound you get from that room, can ONLY be gotten in that room. :)
 
Chamber strings are the shit. Was able to get them for about half off with this last wishlist sale. I can’t believe I thought I didn’t need them when I already owned symphonic strings
 

mikefrommontreal

Active Member
CSS, to my ears has a different quality of subtlety again. And I'd generally use words like "smooth" and "creamy" to describe it, partly from the 'studio' sound, and partly from the quality of the legato. There's a wonderful CSS mock up of Elgar that to me epitomizes the particular quality of its subtlety and expressiveness of the cinematic line.

But my point was that there's another dimension of subtlety, in the libraries I mentioned above, which is timbral, and expressive has an emotional component that I wouldn't quite know how to describe, that I don't hear in CSS (lovely though it is), and that has absolutely nothing to with the epic that runs through spitfire libraries.

I mean, some of these libs are probably great for unsubtle epic trailer music also, but I'm not the one to ask about that. Although I know that Daniel rates Albion One (which I regret buying as it tends to be just too thonkingly epic for me, and has no sul tasto) as being quite far on the 'gentle' side of his spectrum. He would probably know.

(Anyone else think that a whole thread on the taxonomy of notions of subtlety might be fun, or is it just me?)
I understand what you're saying. For me subtlety was more about the detail in the tone of the instrument. As well as the execution of each note. As for Albion One being on the gentle side...yeesh. Me and Daniel James clearly don't write the same type of music, lol.
 

kitekrazy

Senior Member
Hey All,

As most of you know I had a bit of a thing with Spitfire over the past year or so. But since then I have picked up LCO Evo, Olafur Evo, Olafur Chamber Evo, British Toolkit and am currently sizing up Chamber Strings.

As I am sure you are aware it is often tough to eat your own words so publicly, but given the quality of the libraries I have recently got from them (mostly on decent sales!) and the sheer amount of work the libs are putting in for me currently I thought I would be fair and give credit where its due. These are fucking fantastic!!

Genuinely looking forward to whatever is next.

-DJ
I only recall your criticism of one library not meeting your expectations and can be interpreted by some as being negative.
 

Alex Fraser

Senior Member
Despite the obvious need to drive a profit, I think that Spitfire are genuine folk who clearly enjoy what they do. And to be fair, you could probably say that of most developers.

As someone who's lived through 90's ADAT, 2mb hardware samplers and the Proteus 2000, I think this modern day stuff delivered through the internet is beyond witchcraft. We're spoilt.
 

Ashermusic

Senior Member
This thread gives me an opportunity that I wish to take advantage of.

The only product from Spitfire I own is the London Contemporary Orchestral Strings, which I reviewed (positively) for AksAudio.com. https://www.macprovideo.com/article/audio-software/review-spitfire-london-contemporary-orchestra-strings?afid=HT1U3aQxk1

When Logic/VE Pro clients seek my assistance with building templates, frequently they have Spitfire libraries and I always have to give the disclaimer that I don't know them well at all.

Also, on this forum you see me praising certain developers a lot, others hardly at all or not at all. This could lead people to assume that I don't like what I hear from their libraries or that I dislike them as a company. Both are not true. I think they make terrific libraries and I think that they are good people, based on the limited interaction I have had with them.

So why don't you see me buying or praising their products?
1. They are expensive compared to some of their competition and I already have a ton of orchestral stuff I like.

2. I don't ask to review their stuff because they do such an exceptional job of getting the word out, I don't feel a positive review from me brings enough to the table to ask for an NFR.

3. Their libraries tend to be somewhat wet and although the venue they record in is lovely, because I mix and match a lot, I prefer drier libraries generally.

4. The product line and GUIs are a bit confusing to me, although I know that is an easy adjustment on my part if I spent time with them.

But please know that if I were starting out and did not yet own much I liked and I had the necessary scratch, Spitfire would definitely be a contender for me. Their products sound great, they do great walkthroughs and videos to help, and again, they seem to be very decent people.