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Early Reflection and Tail Reverb component panning

Nite Sun

Member
I'm experimenting with seperated Early Reflection and Tail/Late reverbs so that I can have more control over the stereo image of my orchestral mockups. Do folks have any advice on panning reverbs? My instinct is to slighly pan the ER send to the side that the source is panned, but to pan the Tail slightly to opposite side. What do y'all round here do?
 

Beat Kaufmann

Active Member
I stay with the positioning of instruments in the room.
Positioning the room seems to me something special.
Nevertheless, everything can be done if it sounds good.

If the room is supposed to sound "stereo", I sometimes use different reverb presets for left and right. Although this requires a certain additional effort but with today's DAWs it is not a problem.

Beat
 
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Nite Sun

Nite Sun

Member
Thanks Beat. I was just wondering if panning the sends to the ER and TAIL verbs for each individual instrument (not panning the whole room itself) could help with positioning those instruments in the room. My thinking behind panning the send to the tail verb in the opposite direction to instrument source pan was to simulate the effect of echoing off the opposite wall, potentially increasing the perceived depth of the space. Maybe i'm overthinking things.

Very interesting idea to have two different reverbs for left and right, gonna experiment with that now.
 

shawnsingh

Active Member
Actually sounds like a decent idea to experiment with, having different panning before send to ER and before tail reverb. Probably will be a mixer routing nightmare though. Also you probably know already, it's important to make sure your reverb is true-stereo out else the whole "panning the sends before the reverb" idea is moot.

That said, I agree with Beat, panning send to match instrument location is still probably going to be the best.

With VSL I had also experimented with delay panning on the dry signal, i.e. introducing delays between 0.1 millisecond to 1-2 millisecond to emulate the arrival time difference between spaced microphones. This has such a strong effect that you may not need traditional level panning at all, or at least much less.
 
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Nite Sun

Nite Sun

Member
It's actually very easy to do in Cubase. Under channel settings you can set an independent pan (balance or stereo combined) for each send. I use this all the time for delays.

I'd forgotten about the haas affect. Did you use this in orchestral mixing contexts, or more exaggerated hybrid styles?
 

Dietz

Space Explorer
Haas panning is a valid way to artificially pan signals, as long as you stay in stereo. It is very likely that small delays like the ones mentioned above will lead to serious phasing issues when down-mixed.
 

shawnsingh

Active Member
I wouldn't say that delay panning is exactly the Haas effect. Haas effect involves inverting the polarity of one of the channels in addition to the delay.

But it is still a great point that there can be phase issues with delays like this. In my old VSL template, I think I had managed to avoid phase issues. If I remember correctly, I only delay panned the dry signal, which may also have helped.

Attached an old example of my VSL-only template from many years ago. To my ears, mono playback sounds just fine... Or maybe my ears are not sharp enough to catch problems:confused:

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/vsl-composing-competition-mp3.19230/][/AUDIOPLUS]
 

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DMDComposer

Member
I wouldn't say that delay panning is exactly the Haas effect. Haas effect involves inverting the polarity of one of the channels in addition to the delay.

But it is still a great point that there can be phase issues with delays like this. In my old VSL template, I think I had managed to avoid phase issues. If I remember correctly, I only delay panned the dry signal, which may also have helped.

Attached an old example of my VSL-only template from many years ago. To my ears, mono playback sounds just fine... Or maybe my ears are not sharp enough to catch problems:confused:

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/vsl-composing-competition-mp3.19230/][/AUDIOPLUS]
Wow great job, sounds a bit dry but it sounds balanced and together as a unit. I like it alot!
 
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