Dunshield - our passive fader controller is in the works

A new passive fader controller: just faders, or can there be more?

  • Just the faders, thank you.

  • A pitchbend/modulation wheel would be cool.

  • Add a couple of buttons, but no pitch/mod.

  • Pitchbend/modulation + buttons please.


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chimuelo

Star Of Stage & Screen
Brotha’ Man Dunsfield,
An option for a Mod Wheel instead of having 3 would be some switches with assignable CC# assignments.
My 3rd wheel is for master volume when I go to solo sections it kicks up 10db.
Don’t have an FOH these days.
But my other wheel is assignable for filter Cutoff, detune, vibrato, Rotary Cabinet speeds.
Maybe have a few buttons, small like Bus routings on s consoles channel.
That way you can avoid using a preset just because the wheel assignment is a certain needed function.

Just a thought.
CS80 levers were definately unique.
 
Not sure that I get what you mean, could you elaborate?
With motorized faders you can follow automation and start back where you left when switching tracks. It would be awesome if you find a way to do the same with midi data... or at least help us to put the fader back in position manually.
 

chimuelo

Star Of Stage & Screen
it can't be done
Why not?
Just curious.
I had motorized faders on my Yamaha DMP7. Then on the BCF 2000.
Always thought they’d be way more fun with MIDI.

I use a Physis K4 and all MIDI CC#s are recalled in between banks scenes and performances, but would to see my 9 faders, and 9 knobs auto relocate like that.
 
OP
Dunshield

Dunshield

New Member
With motorized faders you can follow automation and start back where you left when switching tracks. It would be awesome if you find a way to do the same with midi data... or at least help us to put the fader back in position manually.
I agree it would be awesome. The challenge is that with Midi that there's no way to tell the faders which track they should read. Say you're on a strings track and your session also contains 25 other tracks that have some sort of Midi CC going on, and another 50 Midi tracks from software VST's that have no Midi CC; how does the Midi controller know that you're on that particular strings track so it can show you its values?

Even if we used motorized faders; how do we tell the controller that it is to read that very track? I mean, for audio track volume faders there is a protocol in place called MCU, and it's quite cumbersome to go through banks of 8 tracks to find your track - and then when you locate your track there's basically only volume to control. But for Midi there's no communication standard like that in place, plus there's often 4 or more parameters to control per track.

It would require some intelligence from the Midi CC software to know which track to read, OR it would require a standard between DAW's to somehow output the data of just the Midi channel that is selected. By my knowing none of this is in place yet. BUT it would be thrilling to find a solution to this. And motorized faders are the way to go then I'd say.

Question: are 100 mm faders absolutely necessary, or could we do with 60 mm faders, but motorized?
 
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Dunshield

Dunshield

New Member
The options are evolving in this direction:

- Model A = 8 ~ 10 faders, passive // joystick for pitch and mod might be available as an option
- Model B = joystick for pitch and mod // 2 mod wheels with toggles // 4 motorized 60 mm faders with tiny oLED screen per fader and toggles to skip between CC's // a couple of buttons and rotaries.

* motorized only if doable regarding automation, see post above
* bank switch options are in consideration for both models
* still looking for a way to unite both models into one ultimate box

The case would measure 230 x 173 x 44 mm ==> that 44 mm is height and is just the case. Add 5 mm for rubber feet, and add the height of the fader caps or wheels/joystick.
 
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Dunshield

Dunshield

New Member
Some parts have been coming in over the past week. We're starting to get a feel of where this is going and boy is it exciting. 2 more joysticks are on order, and a couple of bender assemblies will follow soon. The part on the right with the red cap is a lever coming of my CS60 btw, I'm looking into ways to getting this part remanufactured.

20190204_171908-smaller.jpg
 
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Normqn

New Member
Looking forward to this !
Can't find anything other than the NanoKontrol2 but faders are shit and small.
The FaderCTRL was the best thing, if you manage to go all the way, I'll be buying this.
Thx for you work
 

jjb0737

New Member
Four 100mm non motorized midi faders, pitch wheel, a few rotary knobs, and two motorized faders with LCD: one that can follow which track is selected for track volume automation (not midi cc) and one that can stay as a master fader.

I have a JP cooper fadermaster, faderctrl, and an avid artist mix and I would easily spend 1k to have one fader box that does everything.
 
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danbo

Active Member
Something like HZ's would be great with some extra buttons (I just realised I clicked only faders on the poll). Making it more affordable would be great too, this costs $3199.95

https://jlcooper.com/_php/product.php?prod=eclipsemxl2m
Are we talking for transport/Mackie type control, or general CC's for VI expression control (typically)? That JL Cooper you show looks designed more for transport/Mackie, but for that why not just get an X Touch for a fraction of the price (I have them and they work great - built like a tank and have LCD's on each strip). For general CC the consensus seems to be you want passive not active*, for which the JL FaderMaster is the standard (I also have and works great).

This unit discussed appears to be directed at CC, so to succeed would have to be either cheaper or better than the JL FaderMaster I think.

*it gets complicated trying to route CC's back to an active fader, for one if you jump the playhead around it doesn't know what the present CC value is, depending on your automation state
 

BradHoyt

Member
I'll throw in my 2 cents: The FaderCtrl was a pretty big hit from what I can tell, and that was a homemade unit with only 8 100mm faders. I have one. If you are using it primarily for adjusting MIDI CC info on virtual instruments, it's the absolute best. I wouldn't use shorter faders. There are a lot of cheap units out there that have little faders (korg comes to mind) - 100mm sets you apart. I'd start with 8 100mm faders, and if you want to add a joystick where you can assign the X and Y axis to different MIDI CCs, that'd be totally kick ass.
 
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Dunshield

Dunshield

New Member
If you ask people what they want they will simply request more and more functionality and you'll end up with a hard to manufacture monster with an endless software cycle. Start simple. 4 and 8 fader boxes, USB and web-based configuration.
Good call Vin, thanks for that.

I'll throw in my 2 cents: The FaderCtrl was a pretty big hit from what I can tell, and that was a homemade unit with only 8 100mm faders. I have one. If you are using it primarily for adjusting MIDI CC info on virtual instruments, it's the absolute best. I wouldn't use shorter faders. There are a lot of cheap units out there that have little faders (korg comes to mind) - 100mm sets you apart. I'd start with 8 100mm faders, and if you want to add a joystick where you can assign the X and Y axis to different MIDI CCs, that'd be totally kick ass.
Amen! Thanks Brad.

Shout out to everyone who contributed to this thread + vote so far. The way forward is slowly but surely being lit.
 

yak

The Yak
Your project is the best news I have heard in years. I have seen a number of solutions and somehow none of them are great. I am looking forward to your project coming to market. BTW, I would love to see more pictures of your progress.
 

whinecellar

Jim Daneker
Another vote for a simple 4-8 (100mm) fader metal box with pitch & mod wheels, all high quality components, in as small a footprint as possible, easily programmable, bus powered, class compliant/no drivers necessary. That would allow you to use any controller you prefer and have this box be your “left hand home base.” Kinda like the Doepfer approach, but more/longer/better faders, and choose your own action! Put me down for one!