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Dreams come true, and EIS made it possible

rJames

Senior Member
As a way to brag but also as a way to inspire... I found this cue that I wrote last year posted on YouTube so I asked if I could repost here. (I don't own the publishing)

I could never have had this cue recorded live if it weren't for EIS. You have to already have drive and inspiration but in order for me to get it structured right (and the part that is persperation/inspiration) I had to study EIS.

I changed careers when I was 50 years old (and that was at least 10 years ago). Self-taught for the most part although I played trumpet when I was a kid and listened carefully to learn songs to play in nightclubs (also an eternity ago)

This is nothing for many of you. But for me to have players from the LSO play my music really is a dream come true.

Most of the material on this album was written by John Graham. And others here like Aleksandar Dimitrijevic have done a lot of live work with Immediate. So, props to them. But its a major accomplishment for this old guy. Just giving some credit to Spud Murphy, David Blumberg, Craig Sharmat and EIS.

Amazing Flight
 

Farkle

Senior Member
This is awesome on so many levels!

First, you nailed the hollywood fantasy-adventure sound, congrats on the excellent composition and arrangement! :)

Second, as a fellow EIS'er, who has rediscovered his love of composing, and has learned a TON under Craig (through EIS), I tip my hat to you, sir. To pursue this dream, no matter the cost, to ignore the "I'm starting this at 50, it's so late to start this" voice, and to train hard, to develop this excellent sense of craft, is just awesome and inspirational!

EIS is truly a great vessel to 'open the doors' to detailed, emotional, well-balanced composing and orchestration. And, the proof is in the pudding... you can now put together a compelling orchestration and composition, and do it with confidence, and musicality.

Congratulations, and now, keep writing your next piece! :)

Mike
 

Craig Sharmat

Moderator
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That's very nice Ron and thanks for the compliment, believe it or not you helped me decide in my 50's to do smooth jazz as I figured I was not too old after seeing you have some success when you started doing music for a living.

The piece has lots of nice orchestral devices and I enjoyed it and I heard maybe a hint of a melody finally around 60 secs but it does not last long enough to establish itself, I presume that is by design. Would be nice to have version up on youtube that is not so heavily compressed.

Again very nice and congrats on your accomplishment.
 
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rJames

rJames

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Thanks everybody.

I have my own way of doing things... like to be different and EIS fits that personal style perfectly. One of its defects is its very strength to me.

It does not rely on the history of music...at all. IMHO, its just about manipulating music.

So, a perfect fit for me. I don't like to take ideas from other people, don't like to compose something that is like this or that. Unluckily, my profession demands it though.

But the only orchestral devices that you'll hear in my music are there because the orchestral sections have their own obvious color and functions. And because I am a product of the world I live in, especially the TV and movies that I watch.

Regarding melody. I have a big fat pentatonic motif at about :07 or 8 that I thought was a melody. That bit is repeated ad infinitum throughout the piece both as transitional elements and as fodder for longer lines like when the strings take it for a ride at around :39. And then at about 1:09 it gets twisted around a few more times all the way to the end. My 2nd melody starts at :30 and repeats at :60.

I'm not sure why I can't communicate melody, and I sincerely mean that; I've had lots of trouble in the past. But as far as I am concerned, the cue is built around melody.

Ron
 

Izolus

Member
Very impressive, and an awesome piece. The story is also nice :).

Would somebody mind sending me a link to a website where I can start learning this? I'm not familiar with it and the internet is useless.
 

gsilbers

Part of Pulsesetter-Sounds.com
Thanks everybody.

I have my own way of doing things... like to be different and EIS fits that personal style perfectly. One of its defects is its very strength to me.

It does not rely on the history of music...at all. IMHO, its just about manipulating music.

So, a perfect fit for me. I don't like to take ideas from other people, don't like to compose something that is like this or that. Unluckily, my profession demands it though.

But the only orchestral devices that you'll hear in my music are there because the orchestral sections have their own obvious color and functions. And because I am a product of the world I live in, especially the TV and movies that I watch.

Regarding melody. I have a big fat pentatonic motif at about :07 or 8 that I thought was a melody. That bit is repeated ad infinitum throughout the piece both as transitional elements and as fodder for longer lines like when the strings take it for a ride at around :39. And then at about 1:09 it gets twisted around a few more times all the way to the end. My 2nd melody starts at :30 and repeats at :60.

I'm not sure why I can't communicate melody, and I sincerely mean that; I've had lots of trouble in the past. But as far as I am concerned, the cue is built around melody.

Ron

did EIS help you with melody?
and how?

tbh , this is the first EIS pieace that ive heard that doesnt sound like wierd aleatoric stuff.
i took a couple of classis with david and could see the potential of not working with keysignatures in film music but never realized how EIS could work.
to me it EIS just seemed like a parallel music theory world.
 
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rJames

rJames

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@izolus there are some sticky threads in this forum that will link you up to EIS. EIS is only taught by personal instruction, but that can be via the internet or telephone.

@ gsilbers (whoops EDIT) evidently EIS has not helped me with melody. I mean, many of us think of melody as that beautiful monophonic string of notes in a Mancini or Bacharach song. But I don't think that Hans Zimmer's melodies are quite the same. And pop music melodies, especially the chorus, is a short string of notes.

I would say that EIS has helped me with melody but only in the sense of how it interacts with its surroundings. And that is not necessarily chords.

Because of what I told izolus above, you have to take one on one lessons, there is a lot more to EIS than is in the books. Spud Murphy gave the personal lessons to ALL of his students until he died. There were some graduates who were teaching at this time though as well.

Many things I remember may or may not have been in the course. David related a story to me about Spud saying that we can make it interesting for the players or not. He suggested we make it interesting. To me, all the parts I write are melody. And if its not, it should be. (lots of degrees here though)

Also, regarding melody. Most of the early EIS lessons use melody as a starting point. (the top note defaulting AS the melody. Then you organize underneath. I take that back. They start with an Equal Interval (System) in the bass and I chose to put in the melody first after that and then fill in the middle.

As an aside, I struggle, in the real world, being forced to use a particular chord progression (because listeners recognize it as a particular style) rather than just letting myself go.

But since EIS is pretty much devoid of music history, it does not explore the wonderful melodies that precede us. And therefore my opinion is that EIS does not help the student in building melody. (you're on your own... and I consider that a good thing)
 

Izolus

Member
@rJames Oh dear that's embarassing, I really should have seen that in the forums.

I'm new I have an excuse :P.

Thank you!
 

Craig Sharmat

Moderator
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Ron, I think you may be confusing my take as being unmelodic...it certainly is not unmelodic, far from it. Maybe I should have mentioned a definable melodic theme that threads it's way through the piece instead. Personally as trailer piece that might have made it less usable where here it works great as a general piece. I feel the orchestral devices used are very effective as is the writing.
 
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rJames

rJames

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Thanks for the clarification Craig. You know I respect your opinion as #1... well also Christian's opinion as #1...

As for melody... I accidentally got into a field where I don't get to work my melody muscles very much. But if you ever need the sound of a giant robot crashing into a large building or a dinosauric creature...
 

Craig Sharmat

Moderator
Moderator
Thanks everybody.

I have my own way of doing things... like to be different and EIS fits that personal style perfectly. One of its defects is its very strength to me.

It does not rely on the history of music...at all. IMHO, its just about manipulating music.

So, a perfect fit for me. I don't like to take ideas from other people, don't like to compose something that is like this or that. Unluckily, my profession demands it though.

But the only orchestral devices that you'll hear in my music are there because the orchestral sections have their own obvious color and functions. And because I am a product of the world I live in, especially the TV and movies that I watch.

Regarding melody. I have a big fat pentatonic motif at about :07 or 8 that I thought was a melody. That bit is repeated ad infinitum throughout the piece both as transitional elements and as fodder for longer lines like when the strings take it for a ride at around :39. And then at about 1:09 it gets twisted around a few more times all the way to the end. My 2nd melody starts at :30 and repeats at :60.

I'm not sure why I can't communicate melody, and I sincerely mean that; I've had lots of trouble in the past. But as far as I am concerned, the cue is built around melody.

Ron

did EIS help you with melody?
and how?

tbh , this is the first EIS pieace that ive heard that doesnt sound like wierd aleatoric stuff.
i took a couple of classis with david and could see the potential of not working with keysignatures in film music but never realized how EIS could work.
to me it EIS just seemed like a parallel music theory world.

You didn't take the time to see what it could really do. It's a commitment both financially and time wise and most people are not prepared to deal with that.
 

careyford

Active Member
+1 Craig. I started back in 2007 and stopped twice along the way. I just finished book 8 of 12 and while not that unreasonable a financial commitment (costs less than college or Vienna Cube) it does take an investment of time and money far beyond reading a book or watching a series of videos. And it's worth it. I'm using it extensively on an opera right now.
 
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rJames

rJames

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Thanks so much Hannes!

BTW... in my personal opinion. Jazz players will get the most out of EIS. Because you are allowed to use the crazy amazing technics that Spud (through the course) opens your eyes to.

Many of the amazing insights I gained by my study of EIS (and I only got through the first half or so) have been beaten out of my by trying to write stuff that fits within the boundaries of what an editor is expecting.

I really believe that there are so many pathways that I could have taken (well, the opportunities did not arrive) that would have made so much better use of what I learned with EIS.

I hope you get the opportunity to do it soon.

Ron
 

Lex

Senior Member
As a way to brag but also as a way to inspire... I found this cue that I wrote last year posted on YouTube so I asked if I could repost here. (I don't own the publishing)

I could never have had this cue recorded live if it weren't for EIS. You have to already have drive and inspiration but in order for me to get it structured right (and the part that is persperation/inspiration) I had to study EIS.

I changed careers when I was 50 years old (and that was at least 10 years ago). Self-taught for the most part although I played trumpet when I was a kid and listened carefully to learn songs to play in nightclubs (also an eternity ago)

This is nothing for many of you. But for me to have players from the LSO play my music really is a dream come true.

Most of the material on this album was written by John Graham. And others here like Aleksandar Dimitrijevic have done a lot of live work with Immediate. So, props to them. But its a major accomplishment for this old guy. Just giving some credit to Spud Murphy, David Blumberg, Craig Sharmat and EIS.

Amazing Flight

Congrats rJames :)


alex
 

wonshu

Senior Member
That track was heaps of fun and what a nice way of having drive in the music!

Thanks for posting!

Best,
Hans
 
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