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Voider

Came from the future
Diamond is still totally usable without TVEC2 IMHO, its an absolute bargain at $99.
Absolutely not. Imho it doesn't even sound as good as the old factory orchestra that comes with the library of full Kontakt by NI which probably 90% of the users here already own. The strings sound very synthy and lack in detail.
 

Mikro93

Active Member
Absolutely not. Imho it doesn't even sound as good as the old factory orchestra that comes with the library of full Kontakt by NI which probably 90% of the users here already own. The strings sound very synthy and lack in detail.
I believe it is considered rude on this forum to talk so badly of a library in a thread created by its own developer in the Commercial or Deals sections. You have the right to voice your opinion, just go to an other thread or create a new one if needed :)
 

rrichard63

Perpetual Novice
EDIT: Much later in this thread, someone pointed out that it's in the Deals section, not the Commercial Announcements section. So, in fact, criticism is fair game here.

Sorry for the thread hijacking, but this has been on my mind recently.
I believe it is considered rude on this forum to talk so badly of a library in a thread created by its own developer in the Commercial or Deals sections. You have the right to voice your opinion, just go to an other thread or create a new one if needed :)
That's true, but I have done what @Voider just did without realizing it -- probably more than once. I understand the reasons for the rules, but following them requires that you constantly be aware of which subforum you are in. I find that difficult to keep in mind.
 
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Dewdman42

Senior Member
Absolutely not. Imho it doesn't even sound as good as the old factory orchestra that comes with the library of full Kontakt by NI which probably 90% of the users here already own. The strings sound very synthy and lack in detail.
 
OP
Voider

Voider

Came from the future
I believe it is considered rude on this forum
Absolutely not. You are a member for more than one year here now, you should not believe but know better. It's common to discuss the quality of a library below the posts of the publisher, and disappointment or negative reviews are part of that (see Albion Neo thread for instance). If you believe that only positive opinions should be stated below products that people consider to buy, you should take some time and think about the purpose of a forum. :)

to talk so badly of a library
It is how it is, no hard feelings. Actual feedback and talking something into bad are two different things.


in a thread created by its own developer in the Commercial or Deals sections. You have the right to voice your opinion, just go to an other thread or create a new one if needed :)
So you call a single post rude, but recommend in the same breath to make a new whole thread in this forum to tell everyone that I dislike the Diamond Orchestra.

I won't make a whole new thread to reply to an opinion in this one, and sacrificing some of the clarity and overview of the forum for a single post that could've been done here.

No offense, and I am sure you had good intentions with that post, but you clearly didn't think about it before posting. I'd say, live and let live. :)
 
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Drundfunk

Active Member
Absolutely not. You are a member for more than one year here now, you should not believe but know better. It's common to discuss the quality of a library below the posts of the publisher, and disappointment or negative reviews are part of that (see Albion Neo thread for instance). If you believe that only positive opinions should be stated below products that people consider to buy, you should take some time and think about the purpose of a forum. :)
You might want to read the last paragraph ;) (https://vi-control.net/community/th...ments-rules-please-read-before-posting.67600/). Luckily for you this is the Deals-section.
 
OP
Voider

Voider

Came from the future
You might want to read the last paragraph ;) (https://vi-control.net/community/th...ments-rules-please-read-before-posting.67600/). Luckily for you this is the Deals-section.
I think the rules you linked can easily be misunderstood.

You might want to have a look into the Albion Neo Thread: https://vi-control.net/community/th...ling-albion-series.88953/page-34#post-4509419

This part mentioned in your link: "Negative comments or discussion about competing libraries are not allowed. Sample Talk and all other areas of the forum are free game, of course, but in this section, we ask that the companies not have to deal with any conflict.", I do interpret differently.

Negative comments for sure are things like "sounds like shit, learn how to record samples professionally", and by discussions about competing libraries for sure derailing a thread completely by discussing about other libraries alone is meant. Like if someone asks in the Spitfire announcement about other string library recommendations and then they discuss the quality of Cinesamples Cinestrings in a thread that is about a Spitfire product.

But an opinion about a product, negative or positive, feedback and comparison to other libraries (with that particular one) are for sure allowed, it always has been like that and you can see that all over the Albion Neo thread. There are dozens of commercial threads here where people ask "how compares this to library X" and I've never seen non-positive feedback or opinions being taken down in those.
 
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Drundfunk

Active Member
I think the rules you linked can easily be misunderstood.

You might want to have a look into the Albion Neo Thread: https://vi-control.net/community/th...ling-albion-series.88953/page-34#post-4509419

This part mentioned in your link: "Negative comments or discussion about competing libraries are not allowed. Sample Talk and all other areas of the forum are free game, of course, but in this section, we ask that the companies not have to deal with any conflict.", I do interpret differently.

Negative comments for sure are things like "sounds like shit, learn how to record samples professionally", and by discussions about competing libraries for sure derailing a thread completely by discussing about other libraries alone is meant. Like if someone asks in the Spitfire announcement about other string library recommendations and then they discuss the quality of Cinesamples Cinestrings in a thread that is about a Spitfire product.

But an opinion about a product, negative or positive, feedback and comparison to other libraries (with that particular one) are for sure allowed, it always has been like that and you can see that all over the Albion Neo thread. There are dozens of commercial threads here where people ask "how compares this to library X" and I've never seen non-positive feedback or opinions being taken down in those.
Well I guess moderators have better things to do than to read every single comment on every single thread. They'll do something about it if there are complaints (I think Mike mentioned that Spitfire usually doesn't ask for comments being deleted, so it really doesn't back up your point). With a comment like this "Absolutely not. Imho it doesn't even sound as good as the old factory orchestra that comes with the library of full Kontakt by NI which probably 90% of the users here already own. The strings sound very synthy and lack in detail. " you'd have a hard time to argue how this isn't a negative comment (if it was posted in the commercial section). A comparison is something else and also doesn't have to be negative at all. @Mike Greene: I know you have better stuff to do, but maybe you can just tell us who is right or wrong here. I'm honestly curious myself at this point, but I feel like all the facts/opinions have been exchanged. So all we need is a referee.
 

Jdiggity1

Senior Member
Moderator
If somebody has an issue with another member's post or behavior, please use the report button. Don't squabble and bicker.
I think, as has been alluded to, as this is a Tier 2 thread, anything goes (within normal forum rules). Commercial announcements are generally "cleaned up" quicker than other subforums, and the OPs have the right to request certain posts are removed/moderated.
Apart from "Commercial Announcements" and "Deals Deals Deals", negativity is allowed. But if you come across as a jerk, that's on you. :)

EDIT: This post was evidently inaccurate. My apologies. Please see Mike's post below for clarification.
 
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OP
Voider

Voider

Came from the future
With a comment like this "Absolutely not. Imho it doesn't even sound as good as the old factory orchestra that comes with the library of full Kontakt by NI which probably 90% of the users here already own. The strings sound very synthy and lack in detail. " you'd have a hard time to argue how this isn't a negative comment (if it was posted in the commercial section).
It's my personal opinion on a statement that was made here and it just says that the strings sound synthy to me and that there is a good alternative that most of us already have. That's what a forum is there for, to exchange. If I came in and just said that the product is shit and left, that's a really negative comment. Feedback/discussion is something different, even if you don't like the content inside. Coming across opinions you dislike is something you need to be able to deal with in a forum.

A comparison is something else and also doesn't have to be negative at all.
A comparison is always better for one of the compared options, depending on what someone needs.
Some might read my comment and be like: "Well, actually I want a bit synthy sounding retro strings!".

And now I'm out of this discussion, you're really hijacking this thread here for content that could've been solved through pm or somewhere else.

You decided to write whole essays to argue against them.
You re-started that topic that was done already, I've just replied. Claiming that you want to help the thread out to keep as clean and well as possible while derailing it and make use of it to discuss forum rules and behaviours instead of sending me just a PM is pretty shady.
 
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Drundfunk

Active Member
It's my personal opinion on a statement that was made here and it just says that the strings sound synthy to me and that there is a good alternative that most of us already have. That's what a forum is there for, to exchange. If I came in and just said that the product is shit and left, that's a really negative comment. Feedback/discussion is something different, even if you don't like the content inside. Coming across opinions you dislike is something you need to be able to deal with in a forum.



A comparison is always better for one of the compared options, depending on what someone needs.
Some might read my comment and be like: "Well, actually I want a bit synthy sounding retro strings!".

And now I'm out of this discussion, you're really hijacking this thread here for content that could've been solved through pm or somewhere else.
Am I tho? All I did was giving you the forum guidelines. You decided to write whole essays to argue against them. I'm also out. I think Jdiggity's post was quite clear (as are the guidelines ;)).
 

Mike Greene

Senior Member
Moderator
<MODERATOR NOTE>

We do have stated rules that criticism is not appropriate for Commercial Announcement threads. Those rules also apply to Deals threads, as well as the Tier 2 versions of CA or Deals threads. The reasoning behind this is that many developers don't love doing battle as much as some members do. Many have been chased away over the years, so we designated the Commercial Announcements sections as "safe spaces," where they can make an announcement without having to deal with negativity.

However ...

These rules are very loosely enforced. Many companies, like Spitfire or VSL, do not want us to prohibit criticism in their threads, so we don't. In fact, my guess is that most companies have that attitude. It's sort of an "all publicity is good publicity" theory. So we tend to not enforce that rule unless a developer asks us to, or unless it's a case where we make a guess that the developer would prefer we step in.

In this case, Kirk did not us to do anything (I haven't heard from him at all), and for all I know, he may actually have preferred I left things alone.) But ... "it doesn't even sound as good as the old factory orchestra that comes with the library of full Kontakt by NI" is indeed the kind of thing that would be considered inappropriate, according to our guidelines, and then the resulting debate got a little long, so I'm going ahead and moving these posts here.

Don't get me wrong, I believe Voider was sincere, and his opinion is the sort of thing people might would want to hear before they plunk down a hundred bucks on a library. So, if he likes, Voider is certainly welcome to post opinions on KH stuff in Sample Talk. (Although, having been down this road before, I kinda dread what the fallout from that will be. :grin: )