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Does Performance Samples not want my money?

Paul Owen

Active Member
With each new release comes my excitement and then upon release day my sadness as soon as I see that "Logic CPU spike" warning which won't ever be resolved. Which in turn, means I wont buy it for fear of the product being unusable. Why won't this be resolved dammit?!
*I'm not in the market for Vienna Ensemble*

All the best
 

Geocranium

Active Member
Jasper is fairly lax and sort of aloof with Performance Samples. He's not a sample developer; Performance Samples is just sort of his personal sampling projects that he releases publicly for people to buy. If you look on the FAQs on the website, he says he doesn't provide any kind of tech support/customer service.

The work needed to get his sample libraries to play in Logic simply isn't worth the effort in his opinion, even if it means lost sales. I think it's very nice that he's so transparent about their shortcomings. He's a composer first and a developer second, so any major issues with his releases aren't worth fixing if they take too much time.
 

Saxer

Senior Member
I did the beta testing for Logic. There's definitely a mismatch between Kontakt AU and Kontakt VST. It doesn't concern Jaspers libraries alone, but he's the only one who warns customers. There are CPU spikes in a lot of libraries. It always happens on the active (recording ready) track in Logic. For example: this concerns all the performance legatos in Spitfire string libraries or MS Trailer Strings and Brass and others too. For all those who haven't any problems with this libraries there will be no problem with Con Moto. If you get CPU spikes: using one mic setting for recording and switch the others back on for playback is a workaround for slower Macs too.

Nevertheless I think it's about time to push Native Instruments to solve that problem. On the same machine Kontakt VST works fine and AU doesn't. No other AU plugin generates this problems. It's really embarrassing for Native Instruments.
 
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Mike Greene

Senior Member
Moderator
There's definitely a mismatch between Kontakt AU and Kontakt VST. It doesn't concern Jaspers libraries alone, but he's the only one who warns customers.
Huh. I make Kontakt libraries AND I do my composing on Logic, but I never knew this. Embarrassing, but good to know now, because every so often, someone will complain about performance issues, and now I wonder if it's this AU issue.

As Saxer said, this is probably a Kontakt (or Logic) issue, not a Performance Samples issue. With Kontakt libraries, there's nothing that we as developers do that would be specific to one sequencer or another. It's part of the advantage to creating libraries in Kontakt, rather than creating our own players.
 

Saxer

Senior Member
To clarify:

1. - Logics active channel (recording ready, red "R" button) needs more CPU than a playback track in Logic. If you deselect a track it needs significant less CPU. This is because playback tracks doesn't need to be realtime ready. To record you need to use the active channel but not for playback.
2. - Kontakt libraries which use a lot of scripting and voices need much more CPU when Kontakt is loaded as Audio Unit (AU) compared to VST.
3. - Both (1. & 2.) come unprofitable together in Logic.

I compared Kontakt AU and VST in Logic, Ableton Live, and Vienna Ensemble Pro. It's the same everywhere: Kontakt needs more CPU as AU and less as VST. Other plugins with scripting possibilities like the Vienna Instruments or UVI Falcon doesn't have this difference. They work smooth in both platforms. So I dare to say it looks like a Kontakt AU issue.

If you load Vienna Ensemble Pro as an AU plugin in Logic and open Kontakt as VST in Vienna Ensemble Pro you can get around that problem. Kontakt works like a VST in Logic then and needs less CPU. That concerns all libraries I mentioned (Spitfire, MusicalSampling, PerformanceSamples and all the others...). Everything works smooth that way. But you need to load it as VST in VEPro.
 

fixxer49

Bouncing Consultant
If you load Vienna Ensemble Pro as an AU plugin in Logic and open Kontakt as VST in Vienna Ensemble Pro you can get around that problem. Kontakt works like a VST in Logic then and needs less CPU. That concerns all libraries I mentioned (Spitfire, MusicalSampling, PerformanceSamples and all the others...). Everything works smooth that way. But you need to load it as VST in VEPro though
Thanks, Saxer! So, the bottom line is that there IS at least a workaround by running as a VST in VEP. Good to know :)
 

ka00

Senior Member
To clarify:

1. - Logics active channel (recording ready, red "R" button) needs more CPU than a playback track in Logic. If you deselect a track it needs significant less CPU. This is because playback tracks doesn't need to be realtime ready. To record you need to use the active channel but not for playback.
2. - Kontakt libraries which use a lot of scripting and voices need much more CPU when Kontakt is loaded as Audio Unit (AU) compared to VST.
3. - Both (1. & 2.) come unprofitable together in Logic.

I compared Kontakt AU and VST in Logic, Ableton Live, and Vienna Ensemble Pro. It's the same everywhere: Kontakt needs more CPU as AU and less as VST. Other plugins with scripting possibilities like the Vienna Instruments or UVI Falcon doesn't have this difference. They work smooth in both platforms. So I dare to say it looks like a Kontakt AU issue.

If you load Vienna Ensemble Pro as an AU plugin in Logic and open Kontakt as VST in Vienna Ensemble Pro you can get around that problem. Kontakt works like a VST in Logic then and needs less CPU. That concerns all libraries I mentioned (Spitfire, MusicalSampling, PerformanceSamples and all the others...). Everything works smooth that way. But you need to load it as VST in VEPro.
This might be the answer I was looking for on whether to buy Con Moto Violins B in the next couple of hours at early bird pricing.

But I don’t have VEP. I do however have Komplete Kontrol. So, before the early bird pricing ends (tick, tock) does anyone happen to know if the Komplete Kontrol AU plug-in can run Kontakt in VST mode in Logic? (I’m not at my workstation so I can’t check before the sale ends.)

Thanks!

EDIT: I found a support message from 2017 on the old NI forum. It seems that Komplete Kontrol as a host can ONLY run the VST version of plugins, including Kontakt. Didn’t realize that.
 
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Saxer

Senior Member
To update that: Kontakt 6 AU (AudioUnit) needs about half of the CPU than Kontakt 5 AU in the Performance Samples libraries I tested (ConMoto Cellos & ViolinsB, and Caspian). It seems that NI repaired a bug of K5 AU in K6.
So if you use Kontakt 6 in Logic the warnings are obsolete.
 
To update that: Kontakt 6 AU (AudioUnit) needs about half of the CPU than Kontakt 5 AU in the Performance Samples libraries I tested (ConMoto Cellos & ViolinsB, and Caspian). It seems that NI repaired a bug of K5 AU in K6.
So if you use Kontakt 6 in Logic the warnings are obsolete.
thanks saxer. is this also applicable when using it in Vepro6 ? (if you happen to test that as well)
 

Floris

New Member
I was worried about this as well, hold off from Caspian over it. Spitfire's performance legatos never really stood out to me as being more intensive while recording & totally usable.

It's very kind this warning is put in as many developers would just rather take your money before knowing if it's fixable. I'd personally sort of advice against "avoiding" the library on Logic unless CPU is usually a big issue for you while recording. The libraries I have from Performance Samples are all great & this is not looking to be as much of a deal-breaker as the page might suggest.
 
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