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Does Melody Even Matter??

muk

Senior Member
Just a heads up, if people who are starting out in the production music business are browsing the OP website: don't submit any music to him. The deal he offers is almost offensively bad. Paying to submit is a very bad idea. You can submit for free to hundreds of libraries that can get you placements. Among them all the top tier libraries. Just do a bit of research.

But most importantly: never ever give away any part of the writer's share to anybody who has not collaborated on a track. If Nick didn't write half of the track, don't give him 50% of the writer's share. That's a truly horrible deal for you. I'd call this offer impudent. In my opinion he is trying to take advantage of people who are inexperienced and don't know better. So stay well clear of this 'deal'. You can do a lot better than that, even if you have no experience at all and are just starting out.

And these severe words of warning are all the attention his youtube channel and website should get in my opinion.
 

mikeh-375

old school
So many people wrong on the internet, so little time...

But start here: melody and line are not the same thing. Melody is only one kind of line, and not the most important for many kinds of composition including traditional symphonic, which is based around the ensemble articulation and development of theme (and theme here need not be, indeed in its most characteristic form is not, synonymous with melody). So even if I might be convinced that the definition of line is fundamental to an act of composition, that does not mean that line need to take the form of a melody. And the line can be continuous, broken, convoluted, elliptical, broad, thin, etc. depending on the needs of expression. The line can also be formed in parameters other than pitch, such as rhythm or timbre.

Hey J,
I didn't say they were the same thing, but they are related. A sense of line can be derived from a sense of melody. We are in agreement apart from that mis-reading.
It seems a little harsh to say people are wrong on the internet though especially when some of us actually do know what we are talking about.
 
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jbuhler

Senior Member
Hey J,
I didn't say they were the same thing, but they are related. A sense of line can be derived from a sense of melody. We are in agreement apart from that mis-reading.
It seems a little harsh to say people are wrong on the internet though especially when some of us actually do know what we are talking about.
I wasn’t responding to anyone in particular, just the general drift of the conversation, which I thought was essentualizing a particular narrow conception of line as melody, so sorry if I caused offense.

And the opening line was meant humorously, more a self-mocking comment about the inadvisability of weighing in on this topic, but this being the internet it’s sometimes hard to convey that properly.
 

Desire Inspires

To the stars through desire....
I don't have 31min to see if you're just being provocative, but I really hope you are :)

31 minutes? No way man!

Please tell me there are at least some piano playing kitten clips in there somewhere.

Otherwise, I may have to resort to watching 31 minute piano playing kitten videos.

No offense to the OP of course.
 

mikeh-375

old school
I wasn’t responding to anyone in particular, just the general drift of the conversation, which I thought was essentualizing a particular narrow conception of line as melody, so sorry if I caused offense.

And the opening line was meant humorously, more a self-mocking comment about the inadvisability of weighing in on this topic, but this being the internet it’s sometimes hard to convey that properly.

No prob J. If we where in a boozer I fancy we'd have a good conversation about theme, versus melody, versus line and development because the distinctions are relevant and important to a composing mindset and strategy as you have highlighted....it's your round...:shocked:
btw the concept of line as such feels a little nebulous at times..what's your take on it? (or anybody else for that matter). It might well mean different things to different folk. For me I consider it more as an over-arching concept, not so localised as say motivic development and more of an emotional strategy over longer periods of time, based on perhaps cadential or key/ transition destinations as one example, or maybe tension/release principles......one could go on..and I normally do, but am trying to become more succinct...whatever...oh I'm failing again.
 
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Quasar

Senior Member
Melody doesn't matter at all. Neither does audio. Cage's 4'33" is clearly the music of the future, and this realization saved me a ton of money on studio monitors since - without audio - you obviously don't need them.
 

WindcryMusic

Senior Member
Melody doesn't matter at all. Neither does audio. Cage's 4'33" is clearly the music of the future, and this realization saved me a ton of money on studio monitors since - without audio - you obviously don't need them.

One thing to say about silence ... you get a perfect mix thereof every time. It's an enticing prospect.
 

Greg

Senior Member
I am sorry but your advice is pathetic. Even if you do write library music, just settling for whatever idea pops into your head first to avoid "stress" because who really knows whats good or not good is total bullshit. That's how you're really trying to inspire other composers?
 

mikeh-375

old school
Bregman's auditory scene analysis has plenty of insight into "line"

http://webpages.mcgill.ca/staff/Group2/abregm1/web/downloadstoc.htm

Hi Greg,

I ploughed through the first 11 chapters and intend to read the rest but just wanted to say thanks for the very interesting link.
One could easily re-imagine his work as a definitive metaphorical blueprint for orchestration and especially motivic development,. Relating it to 'line' as such was harder (but not impossible)for me because I have a different view on that. His 'segregations' feel more motif orientated whereas my view of line is that it relates to a longer line over bigger periods of time. That's just me though and perhaps there's more to read on this further in.
There is a lot of technical compositional value in his studies on separation and speed I feel and one could almost cynically manipulate development of material to maximum perception for the listener if one where inclined to, even in a sea of complexity. Mind you, all great music sort of does that anyway!! (As an aside, I learnt early on in media that in faster paced music, a slower harmonic rate of change greatly aids perception for the [non-educated] listener).

A truly fascinating read and even though I recognise a lot of what he is saying (we instinctively compose utilising similar protocols right?), I find the link highly illuminating.
 
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gregh

Senior Member
Hi Greg,

I ploughed through the first 11 chapters and intend to read the rest but just wanted to say thanks for the very interesting link.
One could easily re-imagine his work as a definitive metaphorical blueprint for orchestration and especially motivic development,. Relating it to 'line' as such was harder (but not impossible)for me because I have a different view on that. His 'segregations' feel more motif orientated whereas my view of line is that it relates to a longer line over bigger periods of time. That's just me though and perhaps there's more to read on this further in.
There is a lot of technical compositional value in his studies on separation and speed I feel and one could almost cynically manipulate development of material to maximum perception for the listener if one where inclined to, even in a sea of complexity. Mind you, all great music sort of does that anyway!! (As an aside, I learnt early on in media that in faster paced music, a slower harmonic rate of change greatly aids perception for the [non-educated] listener).

A truly fascinating read and even though I recognise a lot of what he is saying (we instinctively compose utilising similar protocols right?), I find the link highly illuminating.
glad you got something from that Mike - perhaps line is motif (as per Bregman) plus memory. The thing then is to look at why a larger structure of motifs eg a phrase (?) gets linked - for that I would look at language development - the pitch contours of phrasing in language influence musical perception and this starts in utero with the baby hearing the mothers voice - in fact mothers have a language specific method of talking to their baby in the womb that enhances / exaggerates the pitch and amplitude contours. I have written about this here (with a video of the talk as well) http://greg-hooper.com/2018/06/22/listeners-in-the-womb/

[the paper is a lot better than the talk - I never prepare my talks and it shows :) ]
 
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Akarin

digitalcomposing.com
Yeah. What gives man, it's the same with Nestlé or Kim Kardashian - they're so successful, why are they getting flak?

Sorry, can't hear you over the sound of my snobbery meter. It's in the red and about to explode from all the elitism in this thread.

PS. On Nick's channel, there's a video where he explains TV structure. It got me to have my first album accepted by a rather big publisher. What have You done recently for the community?
 

mikeh-375

old school
Sorry, can't hear you over the sound of my snobbery meter. It's in the red and about to explode from all the elitism in this thread.

Hey Akarin, seeing you gave no clear context to this remark, I'd love to think you are not referring to my comments here.
I'm just having a knowledgable conversation with peers is all and one relevant to the OP.
 

Jimmy Hellfire

Senior Member
Sorry, can't hear you over the sound of my snobbery meter. It's in the red and about to explode from all the elitism in this thread.

PS. On Nick's channel, there's a video where he explains TV structure. It got me to have my first album accepted by a rather big publisher. What have You done recently for the community?

Oh, so it's a pissing contest now? My great contribution to the "community" this week was to raise awareness regarding false musical complacence and lack of creative rigor. You should check it out. What are your grand samaritan merits as of late, while we're at it? And why are you arguing, anyway? Too many people only around for the fun of trolling lately.
 
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