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Does Melody Even Matter??

gamma-ut

Active Member
I don't, but the combination of rhythm, interval changes and repeated motives with small changes definitely makes those two melodies, i really don't see how they are not ;)
But that's more a larger-scale structure or assemblage of motives than a typical melody. One might call it a hypermelody - a term for which I apologise for making up (but have probably inadvertently ripped from David Temperley or someone like that).
 

Oliver

Active Member
i think meldody is almost everything.
If you cant touch the emotions with your melody or motiv, then it cant be good.
of course cool sounddesign a la Zimmer can be nice, but in the end people will always remember music by John Williams, because his melodies touched your heart.
 

tadam

Member
i think meldody is almost everything.
If you cant touch the emotions with your melody or motiv, then it cant be good.
of course cool sounddesign a la Zimmer can be nice, but in the end people will always remember music by John Williams, because his melodies touched your heart.
I totally agree with you.
 

WindcryMusic

Always learning
The one thing I feel fairly certain of, after watching the first part of this video, is that Nick is endeavoring to position himself as the anti-Verta.

Personally, I think I'm with Mike on this question.
 

Paul Grymaud

Active Member
Melody = spinal column

The arrangements/orchestration is:
Structure (Intro, development, etc.) = skeleton, all the bones
Instrumentation = all the organs
Rythm = all the muscles
Riffs, gimmicks = repiratory and blood system
Nuances (ppp to FFF) = all the nerves

The mixdown and mastering = The outfit (clothes)

No good music without even a simple melody
b8092684.gif
 

marclawsonmusic

Senior Member
The Cinderella trailer music is actually very effective for what is happening visually.

I think what is happening here is that the pop/rock idiom has come into film music and this (common) device of a repeating ostinato with underlying chord changes is something a lot of people (hint: the audience) are familiar with. Edge's guitar parts (from U2) are very similar and evoke a similar emotional response. Or something like Coldplay's Clocks.

I still think melody matters.
 

jbuhler

Senior Member
So many people wrong on the internet, so little time...

But start here: melody and line are not the same thing. Melody is only one kind of line, and not the most important for many kinds of composition including traditional symphonic, which is based around the ensemble articulation and development of theme (and theme here need not be, indeed in its most characteristic form is not, synonymous with melody). So even if I might be convinced that the definition of line is fundamental to an act of composition, that does not mean that line need to take the form of a melody. And the line can be continuous, broken, convoluted, elliptical, broad, thin, etc. depending on the needs of expression. The line can also be formed in parameters other than pitch, such as rhythm or timbre.
 

WindcryMusic

Always learning
Melody = spinal column

The arrangements/orchestration is:
Structure (Intro, development, etc.) = skeleton, all the bones
Instrumentation = all the organs
Rythm = all the muscles
Riffs, gimmicks = repiratory and blood system
Nuances (ppp to FFF) = all the nerves

The mixdown and mastering = The outfit (clothes)

No good music without even a simple melody
View attachment 18604
I would amend this to say that the outfit/clothing also includes vertical development ... which seems to be mostly what Nick is championing in his video as a substitute for good melodies (and which Mr. Verta rails against regularly).
 

dzilizzi

I know nothing
Well, melody is copyrightable. Chord progressions are not. But scoring to film will be different because sound effects are not really melody or chords, so the picture itself will be kind of the melody?
 

jbuhler

Senior Member
I would amend this to say that the outfit/clothing also includes vertical development ... which seems to be mostly what Nick is championing in his video as a substitute for good melodies (and which Mr. Verta rails against regularly).
And Verta would be wrong when he simply rails against vertical development (which to be fair he doesn't usually do). He points out its limitations and worries that it is displacing more inventive solutions to basic musical problems, and when he does that he is on solid ground. But vertical development is not by any means a recent invention—look at any passacaglia or the opening of most Bruckner symphonies, which often start creatio ex nihilo, for which the technique of vertical development is well suited. Many passages of intensification (usually transitional or developmental) in the symphonic and operatic literature are also constructed in similar fashion.
 

WindcryMusic

Always learning
And Verta would be wrong when he simply rails against vertical development (which to be fair he doesn't usually do). He points out its limitations and worries that it is displacing more inventive solutions to basic musical problems, and when he does that he is on solid ground. But vertical development is not by any means a recent invention—look at any passacaglia or the opening of most Bruckner symphonies, which often start creatio ex nihilo, for which the technique of vertical development is well suited. Many passages of intensification (usually transitional or developmental) in the symphonic and operatic literature are also constructed in similar fashion.
Yes, I agree. Right after making my last post, I thought about amending it to clarify that I meant "vertical development as a substitute for musical (melodic/harmonic/rhythmic) development", which is indeed what I believe Verta is talking about when he vents about most present-day movie music.

But then other people (the real world variety) started clamoring for my attention and I had to let it stand as written. :faint:
 

marclawsonmusic

Senior Member
So many people wrong on the internet, so little time...

But start here: melody and line are not the same thing. Melody is only one kind of line, and not the most important for many kinds of composition including traditional symphonic, which is based around the ensemble articulation and development of theme (and theme here need not be, indeed in its most characteristic form is not, synonymous with melody). So even if I might be convinced that the definition of line is fundamental to an act of composition, that does not mean that line need to take the form of a melody. And the line can be continuous, broken, convoluted, elliptical, broad, thin, etc. depending on the needs of expression. The line can also be formed in parameters other than pitch, such as rhythm or timbre.
I think you are missing the point that this is not really classical or symphonic music. It is rock music rendered with symphonic instruments. I'm not sure you can compare the two.

With that in mind, OP is right that, in a rock chord arrangement, melody isn't so important. It's the riff that matters. In his case, the riff was C-D-F-E. Same with a lot of film / trailer music these days.
 

jbuhler

Senior Member
I think you are missing the point that this is not really classical or symphonic music. It is rock music rendered with symphonic instruments. I'm not sure you can compare the two.

With that in mind, OP is right that, in a rock chord arrangement, melody isn't so important. It's the riff that matters. In his case, the riff was C-D-F-E. Same with a lot of film / trailer music these days.
When Verta rails on vertical development, which he will occasionally do, he does not restrict the criticism to that mode. Watch any of his unleashed videos. He is usually more careful and will recognize a utility to vertical development even as he rightly points out its very real limitations, but the "railing" does slip through.
 
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