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AlexanderSchiborr

Senior Member
This is the most convoluted, egotistical and frankly childishly personal reply I've ever seen from a developer towards a review with rather tame negative feedback. This is the real world, where people don't automatically agree with or support your vision. Resorting to insulting language against a reviewer and making a big deal out of a few things I said that weren't even that harsh, is quite unprofessional and displays the kind of rash behaviour sample developers need to avoid if they intend on keeping their customers happy and their reputation intact.

Standing on a soap box and claiming how incredibly awesome your company is, while spurting offensive comments to the reviewer, is disgusting. I've already maintained that the library has plenty of flaws - no amount of passive aggression will change that - but I also had some good things to say about it, which were clearly not good enough for you considering your attitude.

On a side note, many customers of EW are fans of Nick Phoenix's work on Stormdrum, Ra and the first two Hollywood libraries. It's not a stretch to claim that since Doug's still unexplained and vicious attack on Nick way back when, the quality of EW libraries has continually degraded. That wasn't my fault - it is the fault of those who compromised the relationship and flow that EW had going with Nick and his team.

Honestly, your reply speaks for itself so I have nothing else to say about it. I go by evidence only. I don't know you so I refuse to harbour any resentment towards you and I say these words with a general sense of respect for you as a human being - toughen up and don't let negative reviews get to you. If you're still consumed by the dilemma of negative customer feedback, post all you want. I'll let you have the last say, but it certainly won't stop or resolve any negative customer feedback or unwillingness to part with their money for the product in question.

Understood your point and I finally saw your review. One thing you shouldn´t do and accuse a company of buying reviews if you don´t have any proof for that. Otherwise it is just a claim and I can understand that then someone is pissed of when this is not true (I dont know if that is the case and honestly I don´t care about that). For the rest of your review I dont have any problem, that is the only thing. Even if you feel there might be something fishy for you, that doesn´t belong in a review imo. Just my few cents.
 

Parsifal666

I don't even own a DAW, I'm just a troll.
News alert. You are not a reviewer. You’re a bad hair model. Products degraded? I don’t know. I don’t agree. You accused EW of buying reviews which is BS. It’s a bad accusation. Kind of as bad as it gets. For all the things I have disagreed with Doug over, I know he doesn’t buy anything. It’s kind of the opposite. And you missed the point and huge upside of Hollywood Choirs. You just wanted to make your video. On the upside, at least you still have hair.

I'm surprised this turned into an ad hominem attack, however I respect QL and see how he was antagonized.
 

erica-grace

Senior Member
One thing you shouldn´t do and accuse a company of buying reviews if you don´t have any proof for that. Otherwise it is just a claim and I can understand that then someone is pissed of when this is not tru

Yeah - the review is not the problem. Accusing someone of unethical behavior without evidence to back up your claim, is, and is pretty low.

Cory - do you have evidence? If so, please present it. Either here, or on youtube as an addendum to your review video. If not, you need to be a man and apologize to EWQL. Not for the review, but fo the accusation.
 

X-Bassist

Senior Member
And yes, we have plenty of key switches, but just not complete ones because PLAY can’t handle the size of them.

Thanks for this answer Nick, first time I’ve heard that Play can’t handle the size of bigger keyswitch patches. I realize admitting to this would be hard for East West, but if they had it would have answered some questions years ago. I appreciate your honesty.

Can’t agree with you about Cory. He’s decent reviewer and a real user, and I have yet to hear a review from him on anything I own that was not spot on. Perhaps he went a bit beyond review with the accusation of EW, but sinking so low as to comment on hair (espeically since it’s a sensitive issue for you, me, and many others) is a bit... in the worse way... high school. How about keeping the comments civil and something that stays on topic. As Mike mentioned, no personal attacks.

I think most people are looking for answers here, and I appreciate all that you are giving. With cool heads we can keep the convo to facts and advice, leaving out accusations and insults.

“I really don’t have much to do with the workings at EW but I think there is something coming you might like”

Perhaps on things to come we should all just wait and see. Although human nature usually pushes us to want to know what’s coming, personally I might have been better off never hearing about Play Pro. But thanks for trying to relay some good news (even if it’s just a hint). Enough for now. ;)
 

artomatic

I compose with my EARS
News alert. You are not a reviewer. You’re a bad hair model. Products degraded? I don’t know. I don’t agree. You accused EW of buying reviews which is BS. It’s a bad accusation. Kind of as bad as it gets. For all the things I have disagreed with Doug over, I know he doesn’t buy anything. It’s kind of the opposite. And you missed the point and huge upside of Hollywood Choirs. You just wanted to make your video. On the upside, at least you still have hair.


Wow. I have been a customer since my first purchase (RA) all the way to the Hollywood series... but really? Totally dismayed by this response. Just sayin'.
 

StatKsn

Active Member
I like that Nick chimed in and I don't have a problem at all with his post or his language.

I don't want to derail the discussion, but I honestly am surprised that you have no problem at all with Nick's languages like "a$$" "f- that guy" "bad hair" toward Cory. His posts have a lot of legit points, but personal attacks and juvenile languages were absolutely unnecessary when everybody else was mature and civil. It is not adding any value nor helping anybody - just devaluing the discussion.

I am not suggesting to censor the language - he is not attacking me anyway and a bit of language doesn't bother me that much. However, you are the admin and I just don't think that a forum for professionals should "officially" give an overly aggressive behavior a seal of approval. JMHO.
 
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Mike Greene

Senior Member
Moderator
I don't want to derail the discussion, but I honestly am surprised that you have no problem at all with Nick's languages like "a$$" "f- that guy" "bad hair" toward Cory. His posts have a lot of legit points, but personal attacks and juvenile languages were absolutely unnecessary when everybody else was mature and civil. It is not adding any value nor helping anybody - just devaluing the discussion.

I am not suggesting to censor the language - he is not attacking me anyway and a bit of language doesn't bother me that much. However, you are the admin and I just don't think that a forum for professionals should "officially" give an overly aggressive behavior a seal of approval. JMHO.
I hear you, and I probably went too far when I said "I don't have a problem at all with it." I was just making a point that given that the review was apparently somewhat negative (I haven't actually seen it), then Nick should be allowed some leeway in his response. His post was an honest one with a lot of great insight, so I don't want to start slapping hands over a few questionable words.

To be clear, if Cory were actually being personally attacked, that would be a different story, but Cory's a big boy, and I can't imagine him being devastated by a generic "f that guy" remark. Surely a reviewer must already be aware that the recipient of a lukewarm review is thinking "f that guy." It's not like the person saying it out loud changes anything. As to the hair remarks, knowing Nick, I think those were jokes. ;)

FWIW, Nick and I have also had a couple public disagreements over the years, and I've been on the receiving end of a jab or two myself, and ... okay, maybe I said a few things, too. :grin: But the mods (years ago, not here) rightfully didn't edit a thing, because our discussions were good ones. I admire Nick's passion and accomplishments. I don't agree with everything he says, but I (and I think most everyone else) sure want to hear what he has to say, even if a rule or two gets bent along the way.

This is not to say that the forum is now officially declared a free-for-all for "f that guy" remarks. It definitely is not. But like with the "twat" episode, context is important. Admittedly, it's highly subjective, since it's impossible to define what exactly is okay and what isn't, because there are so many factors specific to any situation. The overall philosophy, though, is that although the preference is for civility, I don't want to discourage valuable posts by being too restrictive.
 

StatKsn

Active Member
Yeah...? I don't know. If that was a joke, I fail to find a funny factor. To me, a joke is ultimately what a person being teased will benefit from. A pro wrestling rather than an assault. A win-win thing. The hair remark (with the context) looked like a creative insult, but who knows?

I understand and agree that you don't want to be too restrictive, though!
 

Quantum Leap

nickphoenix.com
Everything I say is dead serious......long pause with death stare and no blinking. I get into trouble when I open my mouth quite often. Can’t understand why to this day. I used to consider myself diplomatic, but then I got overconfident I guess. Life’s a weird balance of confidence and utter insecurity. I’ve always been a trouble maker though. Since I was 5. Anyway this guy (the reviewer who shall not be named) would have been awesome as part of my Northern Enclosure cartoon. Would take about 5 seconds to capture that likeness. Maybe he would be holding a skewer with sizzling shrimp on it or something equally stupid.
Everyone always tells me how I should behave as a developer, which I find odd and I ignore those comments entirely, so please ignore the following comments: As a reviewer, you have a responsibility to try and be fair and accurate. The reason is that your comments can ruin companies and lives. Not in this case, but generally that’s so. (Sh1t I forgot this guy was a hair model not a reviewer) If hair club for men actually worked for a publication and managed to get the “buying reviews” comment online, he would be fired instantly. Now I don’t want him fired, just flogged with a bag of raw shrimp and baby powder. Oh wait he has no job. Anyway, virtual instruments sometimes are tricky to operate and I guess you need a few minutes to figure out what Hollywood Choirs is all about. That’s my gripe. Dude just didn’t want to like it. He missed the point. As someone who writes a ton of choral music, I can tell you the library is top notch and actually super easy to use unless you are doing Acapella.
 

Mike Greene

Senior Member
Moderator
I moved a few posts to this thread in the Drama Zone. Thoughts about the review or about Choirs or other relevant topics are of course welcome, but as I mentioned earlier, please refrain from posts and opinions about the principle participants of the thread. It's not helpful, and a roll call of third parties declaring whose side they're on turns this into a drama thread, which most people don't want.
 
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Jeremy Spencer

Senior Member
I hated Hollywood Choirs when I first started using it. But guess what? I pulled my head out of my ass and actually learned how to use it (yes, I actually read the manual ;)) and discovered it's awesomeness. Either you like it or you don't, simple. Been using EW stuff since the old Kompakt days, and Play has never given even a fraction of the grief that Kontakt has. And custom keyswitches? Don't care, never needed them....if you want that, use Cubase expression maps, problem solved. There's always going to by whiners and naysayers (guilty as charged), but that's the nature of the beast.

I think it's very cool that developers, like Nick, actually visit the forum and occasionally take the time to post. Don't like his "foul" language? Maybe go over to the Disney forum; this a forum for musicians, and it's all part of the shop talk (maybe I spent too much time on the road, I dunno). At least he took the time to post and interact.
 
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desert

Just here so I don't get fined
I’ma going to step in and say - EW had one of the best libraries of all times! One of the best libraries of all times!
 

MusicLabor

New Member
Really? Thank you! Means a lot to me :). Keep in mind that just one sentence in WB took me a loong time.
I have to say that however much time you took to produce that was worth the effort. It is astonishingly beautiful and realistic to my ears. Bravo!
 

arznable

Active Member
I have also used it in one of my projects since I upgraded. It is quite difficult to program at times I have to admit. Here is an example I used it as background vocals for an epic song.

 
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