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Do you use 2 faders? or 1 fader + a foot midi controller?

mcpepe

New Member
Hi!
I am new to this orchestral sampler players world so, please, educate me.

I have seen a few sampler libraries played using Kontakt and 2 midi CCs for expresiveness. For example, in all Spitfire libraries videos. They usually use 2 faders.

Do you use 2 faders? or 1 fader + a foot midi controller?

Normally keyboards controllers only own a Mod-wheel, but not 2! So I think you need to use something for the 2nd controller: an external fader controller? or a foot expression pedal could be a good solution? What do you use?

I think I have seen a library that uses only 1 controller for expressiveness. But maybe this is less expressive than using 2. What do you think?
 

Land of Missing Parts

Grumpy Monkey
Hi!
I am new to this orchestral sampler players world so, please, educate me.

I have seen a few sampler libraries played using Kontakt and 2 midi CCs for expresiveness. For example, in all Spitfire libraries videos. They usually use 2 faders.

Do you use 2 faders? or 1 fader + a foot midi controller?

Normally keyboards controllers only own a Mod-wheel, but not 2! So I think you need to use something for the 2nd controller: an external fader controller? or a foot expression pedal could be a good solution? What do you use?

I think I have seen a library that uses only 1 controller for expressiveness. But maybe this is less expressive than using 2. What do you think?
I think one fader for cc1 (modwheel), a pitch bend controller, a sustain pedal, and a volume knob should be fine for most normal uses. cc11 (expression) is really just volume, I believe.

I know Sample Modeling instruments have several extra parameters like vibrato control that you could use additional controllers for.

Personally, I'm keeping an eye out for a deal or a cheaper version of the Palette Gear Fader--currently around $200, which is way more than I'll pay for one fader--for that cc11 control. I'm also looking at a Korg Nanocontrol or maybe a Presonus Faderport on sale.

If someone knows of a way to get a single fader cc control that doesn't take up a ton of space (I just don't have room on my desk), please let me know.
 
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Saxer

Senior Member
I use CC1 only for dynamic on most (if not all) libraries. If I need parallel CC11 I use a midi plugin to copy 1 to 11 (with about 60% amount, depending on the library).
If I need low dynamics with high audio level I automate the channel fader.
 

Ifness

Member
Another option is a breath controller to control volume or expression. I personally have a KorgNanoKontrol2 (works great), a TEC Breath Controller, and a foot pedal. What I use varies from VI to VI.

Also take a look at the TouchOSC app for ipads and android tablets. It's a cheap option and seems to be used by quite a few people on this forum to control faders, midi CCs, etc.
 

JohannesR

Active Member
I use CC1 only for dynamic on most (if not all) libraries. If I need parallel CC11 I use a midi plugin to copy 1 to 11 (with about 60% amount, depending on the library).
If I need low dynamics with high audio level I automate the channel fader.
I’ve been thinking along those lines myself. The only reason for having a separate CC11 is to >niente and niente< for the libraries that don’t support going to silence when CC1=0.

It’s just a whole lot cleaner to have just one line of midi controllers (CC1+CC11), instead of two separate lanes (one for CC1 and one for CC11). Or am I missing something?

Clearly, using CC1 only doesn’t give you enough dynamics, so it’s crucial to use both CC1 and CC11.
 

Saxer

Senior Member
I’ve been thinking along those lines myself. The only reason for having a separate CC11 is to >niente and niente< for the libraries that don’t support going to silence when CC1=0.
In Kontakt it's possible to control volume via midi (right click midi learn CC1) and then set the amount in % in the midi in the Automation tab. Works fine but isn't helpful when switching to velocity controlled articulations.
 

JohannesR

Active Member
In Kontakt it's possible to control volume via midi (right click midi learn CC1) and then set the amount in % in the midi in the Automation tab. Works fine but isn't helpful when switching to velocity controlled articulations.
Thanks! I knew about right clicking and assigning CCs, but % in the automation tab was new to me. In a perfect world I would have a CC table as well, to fine tune the relationship between CC1 and CC11 :)
 

InLight-Tone

Senior Member
I’ve been thinking along those lines myself. The only reason for having a separate CC11 is to >niente and niente< for the libraries that don’t support going to silence when CC1=0.

It’s just a whole lot cleaner to have just one line of midi controllers (CC1+CC11), instead of two separate lanes (one for CC1 and one for CC11). Or am I missing something?

Clearly, using CC1 only doesn’t give you enough dynamics, so it’s crucial to use both CC1 and CC11.
Bam my thoughts and practice as well. I never unserstood having to wiggle CC11 with CC1 at the same time.
 

WindcryMusic

Senior Member
I used to try to use CC1 and CC11 in concert the way that the Spitfire guys typically do, but lately I've started restricting my use of CC11 to those more limited situations in which I feel that I need more dynamic range than what the samples are giving me.

I've also tried using a foot pedal to control one or the other of those CC values, but the foot pedals I have on hand (Korg KVP-001) aren't nearly smooth enough for natural-sounding, expressive CC performances. Or maybe my feet are just uncoordinated. In any event, I couldn't do it in a useful way, so I quickly gave up on the idea.
 

chimuelo

Star Of Stage & Screen
Here’s what they use on the big jobs.
Just kiddin’, been wanting to say that for a while now. Some guy playing in a dive down the street says this and cracks me up.
I like CC#7 for volume, CC#11 for Tube Overdrive.
Plus a group of selected faders representing drawbars on a Hammond B3 have negative values (6 total usually on an Exp Pedal) so I go from from full swell to a grungy percussive lead all with one Pedal, emulating an old timer using a swell pedal plus an entire left hand.
I love MIDI.

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Alex Fraser

Requires ☕️
I've tried multiple faders, iPad faders etc etc...but I just like the mod wheel. It's what I'm used to as a keyboard player. Personally, I use expression sparingly. When CC11 is moved up and down, it sounds like those old dudes pumping the volume pedal on home organs..if you're not careful..
 

X-Bassist

Senior Member
Hi!
I am new to this orchestral sampler players world so, please, educate me.

I have seen a few sampler libraries played using Kontakt and 2 midi CCs for expresiveness. For example, in all Spitfire libraries videos. They usually use 2 faders.

Do you use 2 faders? or 1 fader + a foot midi controller?

Normally keyboards controllers only own a Mod-wheel, but not 2! So I think you need to use something for the 2nd controller: an external fader controller? or a foot expression pedal could be a good solution? What do you use?

I think I have seen a library that uses only 1 controller for expressiveness. But maybe this is less expressive than using 2. What do you think?

I have 4 Yamaha FC-7 pedals hooked into a small quad version of this that changes the volume info to midi over usb :
https://www.audiofront.net/MIDIExpression.php

Works really well and the setup is simple (comes with a free app to change CC's and curve for each pedal). No other software necessary. :) It takes a little time to find the right CC curve to make the pedal feel the smoothest. But a little setup time and testing, save your settings. done! I like my two hands free for playing.
 

SchnookyPants

I never metaphor I didn't like
Yup. The Midiexpression gadgets are simple and painless. I only have the single-input, though. Can you give me an example of how you'd have four(4) pedals set up?
 
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