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Did the internet ruin music schools and teachers?

Parsifal666

I don't even own a DAW, I'm just a troll.
I should mention...in my graduate year I asked myself if music really was what I wanted to do in life.

I lay down with Beethoven's 9th and headphones and knew. The very first movement is this Heavy Metal, proto-Wagner show of absolute might...to this day I get chills just thinking of those riffs ( ;) ).

I feel music so much, especially wonderful music, and part of that feeling is one of potential for creation. I feel like I have my own voice to share, and that's important to me if not for anyone else.

But...

yeah, what @NYC Composer said X1000.
 

Rodney Money

On V.I. avoiding work.
You can literally find everything you want in the web. You can learn theory, notation, orchestration, just whatever you like.

Did that have an impact on music teachers and schools? Did they make more money back when there was no youtube and all the other music tutorial sources?

Also, what is THAT thing what a teacher can give to you that the internet doesn't?
I did not go to college to major in music to learn theory, notation, orchestrations, or even how to compose, etc. I was literally bored in all 7 of my music theory and aural skill classes. I learned chords, part writing, and voice leading by studying hymns as a teenager, learned notation by playing an instrument ever since 6th grade, learned orchestration by playing in various ensembles and studying scores paying attention to the role of each instrument and how to write for them idiomatically, and I did all of this before I even knew what the internet was.

So why did I go to college? Opportunities. To meet Phil Smith, Arturo Sandoval, Wynton Marsalis, T.S. Monk, private lessons with professional published composers Scott Meister and Bill Harbinson, extra lessons with composers David Maslanka and Eric Whitacre, opportunity to work in 2 professional studios anytime I wanted, conducted, and composed music for every type of soloist and ensemble imaginable at a professional level, learned how to engrave music properly, received professional recordings of my compositions so publishers would publish my works after I graduated, networked with professional musicians and future professional musicians who have kept me in commissions since I graduated college (having a trumpet concerto premier this April for example,) and the most important impact college had in my life? Meeting Dr. Bill Jones who is secretly possibly the greatest trumpet player, teacher, and brass instrument builder on the planet (he builds instruments for players of the Chicago Symphony.) Not only is he a wonderful person, he also has every professional contact imaginable, and is open to share his knowledge and expertise. It's kind of like having a personal "concert orchestral and choral Hans Zimmer" (trying to put it in perspective) with his phone number and Facebook Messenger. One of our last conversations was literally, "Dr. Jones on an Eb trumpet can I feel free to write to the high C like I do on a Bb or C?" Dr. Jones, "Unless one has a F above high C on a Bb I would avoid writing a high C but concert high Bb is a lot easier on an Eb than a Bb. Also Rodney, do you mind arranging your 6th movement of your concerto for trumpet and vocalist? I have a friend who is the perfect mixture of Sarah Brightman and Enya, and we would like to perform your piece at the next brass chamber music conference." You can't find that on the internet.

That's the impact my school and my music teachers had on me.
 

The Darris

Senior Member
Don't go to school to learn "how" to compose or write, or theory, or any of that. Go to school to meet musicians and other composers and learn how to collaborate and inspire each other. That is how you build a better community and create opportunities not only for yourself, but for others as well.
 
OP
ein fisch

ein fisch

Dreamer
Don't go to school to learn "how" to compose or write, or theory, or any of that. Go to school to meet musicians and other composers and learn how to collaborate and inspire each other. That is how you build a better community and create opportunities not only for yourself, but for others as well.
This, but you can also do that without going to music school. Just hit up every person in real life that does music (even if its a street musician), or could have something to do with music. Go to concerts and talk to the people when they're done. get to know them. and their friends at some point (mixing engineers, recording engineers they've had).. this way you can network pretty much as easy as if you were attending a music school.. its a bit more of an effort but im sure it pays out at the end

and of course dont forget to care about your own music (or whatever your profession is) aside of that
 

MatFluor

Senior Member
This, but you can also do that without going to music school. Just hit up every person in real life that does music (even if its a street musician), or could have something to do with music. Go to concerts and talk to the people when they're done. get to know them. and their friends at some point (mixing engineers, recording engineers they've had).. this way you can network pretty much as easy as if you were attending a music school.. its a bit more of an effort but im sure it pays out at the end

and of course dont forget to care about your own music (or whatever your profession is) aside of that
Just don't be the obnoxious guy that goes around and introduces himself to everybody like "Hey, good gig, I'm a producer!" like a sleazy vacuum salesman...
 

muk

Senior Member
Everything I know about music I learned from an awesome piano teacher, and a university professor of unbelievable knowledge. Actually it would also be true to say that I had to learn everything myself. Because I had to. It took countless hours of reading, listening to music, analyzing scores, practicing the piano, writing essays. All of this I had to do myself. Nobody can ever do that for you. But it was these two teachers who showed me the never exhaustible abundance of what there is to learn, and how I could learn the aspects of it that interested me. They couldn't do the learning for me, but they could explain intricacies and insights of music that I never had known where there. A good teacher shows you how to learn. And this you most definitely won't learn on the internet.

Certainly you can make connections at school or university. You can even find friends. But at least for me, the social component was by far not the only thing school and university had to offer.
 

Parsifal666

I don't even own a DAW, I'm just a troll.
The social thing for me was mostly just being in the right place and getting the right musicians at the right time. I cannot stress enough how important it can be to make sure the people performing your music are doing so the way you want. It is seriously hard work when it comes to making this happen with an orchestra of musicians (sometimes especially when it's a remote recording).

But hey, I've been remote for over six years now, so the social thing is partly over for me (and good riddance, with a small proviso):

I abandoned the being-there-in-the-world/FB/Twitter etc. thing because none of the people whom heard and knew me for indie film stuff and Rock music would listen to my most important music (my non-commissioned work). I was given negative, indifferent feedback...impossible.

So I started just posting news about my commissions and where to buy my music. In other words, I for the most part basically divorced FB, etc. Because of that, I wrote what I wanted to write SO much happier and better. Not caring about what anyone thinks but myself made me into more of a contented, fulfilled artist-type, I guess. Sounds kinda corny, but there it is.

Now, this is an extreme less-travelled approach, not one I would especially recommend.
 
OP
ein fisch

ein fisch

Dreamer
Just don't be the obnoxious guy that goes around and introduces himself to everybody like "Hey, good gig, I'm a producer!" like a sleazy vacuum salesman...
Except that i start talking about me and my music stuff rightaway its pretty much what i do. What would you do different than that?
 

Rodney Money

On V.I. avoiding work.
Except that i start talking about me and my music stuff rightaway its pretty much what i do. What would you do different than that?
I am interested in knowing more about this. Let’s say you went to one of my concerts and you liked what you heard. How and what would you say to me afterwards?
 
OP
ein fisch

ein fisch

Dreamer
I am interested in knowing more about this. Let’s say you went to one of my concerts and you liked what you heard. How and what would you say to me afterwards?
Im far from that point where i overcame that anxiety to just hit you up as if it was nothing. A mixing/recording engineer which i know gets all his connections that way and it seems to work, he makes a living from it and is super confident about it.

To answer your question: if i woulf hit you up, it can be assumed i liked your music, and therefore would want to know more about you and your sight on music in the first place and get your social media links afterwards to follow you online. I don't hit you up out of the motivation "i need something from you".. its more of a "i want to know more about you"..

But i honestly do not know if its the right way. I just thought its better than sitting at home and doing nothing
 

mikeh-375

old school
Some of you might have picked up on the fact that I believe in training.:geek:. However, I also believe that if you are of the right disposition, you can, and in fact have to, learn on your own, but it is a risk going completely solo - some guidance in the initial year or three would definitely be advisable for beginners. If you have a belief, ability and the wits to see it through, there is no reason imv why you need to pay for a course in octatonic whatevers when it is easy to create your own scales, derive melody and harmony and find your inner voice. To do that though, you must learn a few principles and then learn how to bend them to your whim over time with practice and as always with technique, apply imagination and invention.

What is not in doubt is that learning (as much as is possible) is a gateway to seeing and exploiting more possibilities in your creativity if you are orchestrally/classically bound. The internet can be of benefit imv, but only if you yourself are good enough to absorb what you need and then go beyond it with self reliance, commitment, ability and intelligence.
I'm only considering actual composing here, the benefits of a uni/academy education are clearly more advantageous in many other ways...in my day it was subsidised booze in the students bar that was the clear winner....:thumbsup:
 
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Parsifal666

I don't even own a DAW, I'm just a troll.
The internet can be of benefit imv, but only if you yourself are good enough to get beyond it with self reliance, commitment, ability and intelligence...the benefits of a uni/academy education are clearly more advantageous in many other ways...in my day it was subsidised booze in the students bar that was the clear winner....:thumbsup:
Well, that's what college is for, right? ;)

Some of you might have picked up on the fact that I believe in training.:geek:. However, I also believe that if you are of the right disposition, you can, and in fact have to, learn on your own, but it is a risk - some guidance in the initial year or three would definitely be advisable for beginners. If you have a belief, ability and the wits to see it through, there is no reason imv why you need to pay for a course in octatonic whatevers when it is easy to create your own scales, derive melody and harmony and find your inner voice. To do that though, you must learn a few principles and then learn how to bend them to your whim over time with practice and as always with technique, apply imagination and invention.

What is not in doubt is that learning (as much as is possible) is a gateway to seeing and exploiting more possibilities in your creativity if you are orchestrally/classically bound.
This is very cool, I like the way Mike put it as much as the advice itself. It does take one hell of a lot of self-motivation to learn on your own...everything about composing on computers I had to teach myself (heck, I graduated back in 1988! Yeah, I'm old as hell). Of course, as most people know here, back "in the day" the idea of doing what we do here on computers was a sort of sci-fi idea, at least for folks like me. It was all paper and pencil for us at the time.

The time came when I had to learn everything I could about Cubase, midi instrumentation, remote work, etc. And at the time I was just becoming blown away by the technology, and I was severely intimidated (I hated computers growing up...anyone remember the Commodore 64? :) ).

I kept getting frustrated with the (Ozzy voice): "space age shit", but eventually, with hyperattentive absorption of the materials I had at hand, things became less Greek. And eventually I snapped it up (of course, there's been PLENTY of things to learn since then and today).

Sometimes a person has to find that desire in his or her heart and own it; to look at oneself in the mirror and say "I am completely here and going for this, I am in it with all my heart and mind and completely unstoppable". It might look rawther histrionic here, but it worked for me. And trust me, I had to repeat something very similar when I finally got around to studying synths lol! It was a WHOLE lot of work all around, and again I must mention how easy it is to pick up bad habits without a physical teacher.

The pay off is extraordinary and ongoing...you'll use your tools so many times you'll lose count. It just depends on how much you love it, I guess (or, to be realistic as possible, how much of zee moolah you plan on scooping).
 
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