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Did the internet ruin music schools and teachers?

Saxer

Senior Member
Theoretically you can learn everything from the web. But what you can't get there is mainly three things:

- It doesn't show you what you don't know but should know
- It doesn't show you the mistakes you make and correct them
- It doesn't connect you to a group of interactive real people

And there's nobody to motivate you to keep going if things get harder. Sometimes you need somebody to show you where you practise the wrong things.

And you need someone to open new doors for you to explore new rooms you didn't know they even exist.
 

Akarin

pragsound.com
I'm a teacher. Programming, not music. But I think it's the same problematic: even though everything about programming is available for free on the web, the hardest for a new learner is to know what he doesn't know. That's what a teacher guidance is for, mostly. And then to correct bad habits early on so they don't impact the learning journey ahead. The Uni I work for is experimenting a lot with online courses and that is what I do today: record my courses but have one-on-one chats with students weekly. Best of both worlds.
 
OP
ein fisch

ein fisch

Dreamer
So did you start your schooling yet?
Interesting to see this thread after half a year again.
No, i focus on actually doing things atm and invest the money into my studio.
I attend literally every free workshop that SAE offers and try to connect with the other students there to get the connections anyway. And i also were able to take part in 2 mixing sessions from students from there and take some notes.

Right now, after every song i take a lesson from a pretty good producer which produced for some well known names in switzerland and get his criticism and then learn from that
 

Parsifal666

I don't even own a DAW, I'm just a troll.
It could be argued that MTV had a lot to do with it. All you needed was to be young, at least acceptably good-looking, hook up with someone like William Morris.
 

Parsifal666

I don't even own a DAW, I'm just a troll.
It astonishes me when I talk to younger people and they find it fascinating how videos didn't exist when I was a young dude. I mean, you had the occasional like Queen. But most of us got our music by radio, vinyl, cassette.

There's something privately wonderful about hearing a song first without seeing the video. Really, kids. :)
 

AllanH

Senior Member
This is really an interesting thread. I think a big challenge with being self-taught is that it's easy to waste a fair bit of time pursuing ideas that are just "poor".

Music seems to simple: writing music is just hitting keys on the keyboard and the engineering parts are just a matter of loading plugins and fiddling a bit with the settings. Of course, it's not that simple. To me, education is about understanding how how far away the horizon is, what the possibilities are, and then learning some of the techniques to improve.

Local community colleges generally often inexpensive classes that can get give you a sense of the field. That's where I'd start.
 
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jbuhler

Senior Member
It astonishes me when I talk to younger people and they find it fascinating how videos didn't exist when I was a young dude. I mean, you had the occasional like Queen. But most of us got our music by radio, vinyl, cassette.

There's something privately wonderful about hearing a song first without seeing the video. Really, kids. :)
How old are you? By 1982, when I was a senior in high school, MTV was already ubiquitous and changing the playlists of top 40 radio. Then sometime after I graduated from college and stopped listening to lots of pop music, MTV shifted away from playing videos, so videos mostly disappeared again until the appearance of YouTube. By the late 1980s, I had shifted from vinyl to CDs as the basis for my music collection.
 

JohnG

Senior Member
Really I don't know how anyone can really learn music without access to players -- really GOOD players.

I did learn some things from university classes I took writing material for people to perform and seeing how they did with it. But the problem with that is that the players are not at the level you find in studios -- London, Los Angeles, Nashville etc. So the result is that those experiences can teach one to be far too conservative; to write very easy-to-play material, knowing that there will be zero time for rehearsal.

Need the Pros

Consequently, I sort of learned "all wrong" from the university classes. So for me, finally, the best learning by far came from orchestrating for cartoons in the 1990s for Warner Brothers and Disney etc. Having top studio players execute your material was an education like no other, and I don't know how anyone gets to do that at a young age anymore.

Alternatives?

The closest analogue is to look at scores. Just the string parts alone in Wagner -- I would never write something that hard if the only experience I had was from school. Or just about any of John Williams' scores. It's not impossible, but a lot of it is pretty challenging -- range, tempo, lots o' notes.

However you do it, music is a lifetime of trying and continual learning.
 

Parsifal666

I don't even own a DAW, I'm just a troll.
How old are you? By 1982, when I was a senior in high school, MTV was already ubiquitous and changing the playlists of top 40 radio. Then sometime after I graduated from college and stopped listening to lots of pop music, MTV shifted away from playing videos, so videos mostly disappeared again until the appearance of YouTube. By the late 1980s, I had shifted from vinyl to CDs as the basis for my music collection.
My elementary school years were during the 70s. No MTV, and videos were often movies "Song Remains the Same" "Dark Side of the Moon" (not much a fan of either the music or movies, just examples).

I didn't start buying CDs until the 90s, they were considered to be a bit highbrow and budget for starving musicians in the 80s (at least, where I lived in the 80s). I had a TON of cassettes and vinyl, wish I had the vinyl today.
 

Parsifal666

I don't even own a DAW, I'm just a troll.
There are quite a few good orchestras that work remotely now. It's up to the individual of course but it's one way to try to learn.
I have a fan who is a rather important person to the Slovenská Filharmónia, so I get great deals when I need recordings done, all online. I'm pretty sure they're pretty reasonable on prices in genereal, so I must strongly recommend them for projects.
 

jbuhler

Senior Member
My elementary school years were during the 70s. No MTV, and videos were often movies "Song Remains the Same" "Dark Side of the Moon" (not much a fan of either the music or movies, just examples).

I didn't start buying CDs until the 90s, they were considered to be a bit highbrow and budget for starving musicians in the 80s (at least, where I lived in the 80s). I had a TON of cassettes and vinyl, wish I had the vinyl today.
We're roughly the same age I guess. Must not forget those priceless appearances on American Bandstand and what not. Also CDs sounded pretty harsh until they improved the digital to analog converters in the consumer machines. At least that's what I recall. But CDs were a godsend for teaching because they offered some degree of random access (compared to cassettes) and were far more robust than vinyl. Digital files were even a better improvement for teaching, and it's one reason I have so little nostalgia for vinyl. (The other is that I had long experience dealing with very shitty vinyl pressings.)
 

Parsifal666

I don't even own a DAW, I'm just a troll.
We're roughly the same age I guess. Must not forget those priceless appearances on American Bandstand and what not. Also CDs sounded pretty harsh until they improved the digital to analog converters in the consumer machines. At least that's what I recall. But CDs were a godsend for teaching because they offered some degree of random access (compared to cassettes) and were far more robust than vinyl. Digital files were even a better improvement for teaching, and it's one reason I have so little nostalgia for vinyl. (The other is that I had long experience dealing with very shitty vinyl pressings.)
The random access part is sooo great. This is coming from someone who used to turn vinyl speed way down just to learn guitar parts to songs back in the day ;)
 

Parsifal666

I don't even own a DAW, I'm just a troll.
We're roughly the same age I guess. Must not forget those priceless appearances on American Bandstand and what not. Also CDs sounded pretty harsh until they improved the digital to analog converters in the consumer machines. At least that's what I recall. But CDs were a godsend for teaching because they offered some degree of random access (compared to cassettes) and were far more robust than vinyl. Digital files were even a better improvement for teaching, and it's one reason I have so little nostalgia for vinyl. (The other is that I had long experience dealing with very shitty vinyl pressings.)
Wait...Don Kirchner's Rock Concert! Flaaaashback!!!
 
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jonathanparham

Active Member
I have a fan who is a rather important person to the Slovenská Filharmónia, so I get great deals when I need recordings done, all online. I'm pretty sure they're pretty reasonable on prices in genereal, so I must strongly recommend them for projects.
Have you listed your contact on the Remote Recordings thread?
 

AllanH

Senior Member
There are quite a few good orchestras that work remotely now. It's up to the individual of course but it's one way to try to learn.
At some point, that would be fun to try. I already feel sorry for the orchestra :)
 

Parsifal666

I don't even own a DAW, I'm just a troll.
This is really an interesting thread. I think a big challenge with being self-taught is that it's easy to waste a fair bit of time pursuing ideas that are just "poor".
You have to have a mountain of motivation (of course, natural talent and/or a super generous patron are a biiiiiiiiiiig help), but hey I did it and so could anyone imo!

That said oh hell YEAH self-teaching hurt me in some ways. As @AllanH intimated, it's way too easy to begin and reinforce bad habits without access to someone in the real world whom can point out your recurring boo-boos.
 
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