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Delayed, Delayed, Delayed Bohemian Violin

thesteelydane

Senior Member
There are moments where there are strange gaps. I think adding a little more reverb can help with that. I kind of despise the whole elitist attitude about "real" instruments though. If I can play on the keyboard and "write" it on the keyboard, then I know how to write for it. Do I need to be a violinist do be able to write for the violin? Do we always have to push the bounds of the instrument like a Sibelius Violin Concerto? Yeah, we should know what is possible on a real instrument. Anyone really can write a piece of music, it's just that there are degrees of competency and the more we study and the more we do it, the better we get. And the beauty of instruments like Bohemian Violin is that they are programming them to at least behave like the real instrument, so playing it would help us to learn to write for the Violin. So I disagree with you whole heartedly on your last point.

Loving all the debate my comment has sparked. Just to be clear:

I do not own this instrument, but I do think it is one of the best sounding virtual violins out there.

My comment on learning to write with virtual instruments is indeed only relevant if you want to write for real instruments eventually. If you do, then you absolutely do have to study the real thing - you don't have to play it, just understand enough of HOW it's played to be able to write idiomatically. That is part of the job of being a composer after all - if you want other people to play your music, you have to respect their craft as much as they respect yours. Over the years I've had a number of "composers" tell me "why can't you plat that, when my computer VI can?" Incidentally most of them wanted to write something "like Fratres", yet none of them could even name the open strings of a violin, nor understand why that is required knowledge to be able to write arpeggios like that. (Incidentally I made a video about this years ago, but that's beside the point). So that's part one of the equation. The other part is imagination - if you rely on a virtual instrument, no matter how good it is, to inform your creative decisions, you are limiting yourself creatively, because it will never, ever get even close to what a real, skilled human being can do. Once you understand the basics of idiomatic writing, you are in my opinion much better off writing with pen and paper and using your imagination to imagine what it will sound like, rather than reacting to sounds of a VI.

If however, the end result you're after will never be recorded by a real player, then yes, anything goes, the computer becomes an instrument, and if you can play it on your keyboard, then yes, you know all you need to know.

Unless of course you want your computer produced piece of music to sound like it was played by a real violinist...then everything above comes back into play. You have to understand enough to know why a real violinist would never play like the example I reacted to. And this, I believe, is where virtual instruments become a double edged sword that can potentially limit your imagination and harm your musicality.

I spent 10 years working as an orchestral musician, and as much I loved it, I came to despise the snobbery of the classical world, so I'm pretty sure I'm not an elitist. On the other hand, since discovering VI's, making music on a computer, and this forum, I have never been able to understand the way that some people look down on skill and knowledge (not saying you're one of them, I've been here long enough to know you're extremely skilled!). Everybody wants to write "orchestral music" but they don't want to learn about how the orchestra actually works, because they live entirely in the world of recorded music and virtual instruments - I really don't understand that mindset at all. This is where I think VI's are a curse, rather than a blessing. For example, I personally blame them for the prevalence of the omnipresent string ostinatos, because short notes where sort of the only articulation of early string libraries that sounded good. What I fear is an entire generation of composers who have learned to write with VIs, because you inevitably end up writing to the strengths of the library, and that severely limits your imagination. Real orchestras can do so, SO much more than strings ostinatos and footballs in the brass, but you have to actually study and develop real musical skills to tap that potential.

Sorry for the rambling stream of consciousness....
 

thesteelydane

Senior Member
THIS! Exactly what I was hearing.

@thesteelydane Do you have this library? Or do you even bother with solo strings since you play the real McCoy?
I don't, but I do think it's one the best sounding virtual violins out there, so I might have to pick it up some day - which also answers your second question. I DO bother with solo strings, but I don't write with them if it's a piece that will some day be performed live, because I know that will severely limit my imagination - a piano and pen and paper are much better tools for that.
 

Sibelius19

Music is just color and rhythm --Debussy
I don't, but I do think it's one the best sounding virtual violins out there, so I might have to pick it up some day - which also answers your second question. I DO bother with solo strings, but I don't write with them if it's a piece that will some day be performed live, because I know that will severely limit my imagination - a piano and pen and paper are much better tools for that.
Interesting. Even though I don't really know how to play violin, I find it very inspiring to play the real thing.
 

LamaRose

Gato Mighty!
...I DO bother with solo strings, but I don't write with them if it's a piece that will some day be performed live, because I know that will severely limit my imagination - a piano and pen and paper are much better tools for that.
Thanks for linking the video... I somehow missed it way back when.
 

ism

Senior Member
(And I mean this as a huge compliment to the companies named - I think it’s absolutely amazing that a non string player like my self has access to even these tiny interesections with the vast possibilities of real players)
 

Jaybee

Active Member
I bought into both Violin & Cello from the outset seeing the roadmap. Hadn't realised full dev would take this long and having never had any experience of the UVI player either I did not realise that the load times and general 'lag' in the GUI etc would make it harder than it should be to work with. Can't fault the sound or approach to the realism but my old(er) i7 rig running Reaper x64 doesn't get on with it at all (laggy when switching artics, long load times even off SSD etc.) whereas it has no issues with even the largest of Kontakt libraries.

Hoping we eventually get to a 'lite' and more nimble version of both but if I had known the timescale of development and crucially, what was around the corner from Kontakt based devs, I would have waited. Nothing wrong with early adoption/kickstarter type ideas but there is this inherent risk that delivery will be pushed back along the way.
 

P.N.

Senior Member
I see there are people who are not happy about the delays.
I can understand that.

I'm one of the people who got the initial release (actually it was a christmas gift) and i've loved it ever since.
After the 1st expansion arrived i thought "extra stuff for free", not "where's the rest of stuff you promised" - so i was even happier. I only wished i had more free time to use it.

Stating it can be better is not a strong argument since this "complaint" can be applied to any product.

Are some omissions relevant to some people? Sure, but the product itself is in another league already, so maybe we could celebrate that fact too, not just criticize delays that i personally consider understandable, even if the Virharmonic guys are sometimes a little too optimistic about the release dates.

I'm 100% sure they're not deliberately lying to their customers. They're passionate people that are always aiming for the best they can deliver. Doesn't that deserve a round of applause? I think so.

Cheers.
 

TigerTheFrog

Proud Amateur
I played violin in orchestras when I was very young. I would sound awful today if I tried to play a violin, but when I play any virtual string instrument, I instinctively feel how I would use the bow and exactly when I would play vibrato. That's ground into my unconscious from all those years of practice and performance.

I suppose I could use key switches to make the Bohemian violin play like I would, but I don't. I just play the melody on the keyboard.

It sounds like a violin to me, but it's the built-in performer, not 10-year-old me. As far as the bow goes, I often feel like the Bohemian violin is playing me rather than the other way around. It often changes bowing direction sooner than I would. But that's on me--it's capable of doing more.

I have not and will never create mockups of classical music on it. What I do is improvise and write my own music, and the music I write is for the performer to play. I don't feel overly harnessed by limitations.

What I like about the interview with Virharmonic Developer Ondrej Pochyly is the suggestion that the next expansion of BV will let me play it more in my own way, without key switches. Also, it seems like his number one goal is to have their libraries never be outdated.

I never mind waiting for a developer to be ready. Not with the Cinematic Studio Series and not with Virharmonic. Anyway, I love it as it is. Getting more is just a gift, as far as I'm concerned. Maybe not for all you pro composers out there.

I think that Virharmonic might want to consider taking a page off of the Cinematic Studio Series's book and stop estimating release dates for the expansions, except in a very general way. Less information may be better. If more expansions come out in 2019, people will be delighted, just as they were when CSSS suddenly dropped.
 
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