MarcelM
Senior Member
is music theory essential for the modern music composer?
come and join. we have some kind of talkshow running...
come and join. we have some kind of talkshow running...
But I can answer that right now.
Yes. Yes it is.
Dramazone, here we go.
For a "modern music composer"? No. All you need to know to be one of those is there are major and minor chords and that you can arrange you composition like it was a rock song without nearly anyone even batting an eye.
Once you start to listen to guys like Herrmann, Goldsmith, Williams and such, you start to realize how fricking utterly embarrassing your compositions are in the larger context.
But how many people give a damn these days? Not even composers, so why the average movie goers or gamers would. Every time I read youtube comments under some teaser with trailerized Williams music or Mission Impossible Fallout soundtrack video about how great that piece was, I despair.
I don't know what exactly "music theory" means. But one thing is certain. If you want to be as good as possible, you need to study music. And not just some "music theory", but all those things related to composing pieces that go into films and games and whatnot.
You need to know which various chords to use to make your music more stable or more transitional at a specific moment and some more complicated chords to make your music more colourful, not just learn some popular chord progressions. You need to know how to orchestrate, develop your piece through orchestration, how to keep colors fresh, not just that you need a low pounding synth and some strings + brass. You need to start to practise composing in a sonata form and a free-form manner, to be able to make meaningful long compositions and very fluid, agile, flowing yet meaningful compositions. You need to study the works of masters to learn their magic. So you don't need to study "music theory" per se, but you need to study.
I don't think that's something surprising. Scientists read science articles and make experiments, philosophers read books and think, composers should study compositions, transcribe them, etc.
What I mean when saying you need to study those things?
Here, a simple idea incredibly orchestrated and developed:
Here, the vivid and elaborate development yet so seamless:
Here, the smoothness, over 8 minutes long action track that supports the picture yet flows perfectly to create one cohesive symphonic piece:
Now compare those things with guys who compose for Rambo and Star Trek these days... It's sad. Horner maybe stole half of those ideas from Prokofiev, yet he was still able to compose those amazing flowing pieces themselves.
And I think specifically you @Daniel James are a really really talented guy. And I must say, my personal wish is you start to delve deeper into the golden era composing and start shift things a bit. Since I believe you have the talent and potential to bring back these more intricate, subtle, rich and interesting sensibilities the modern music era has lost, even if in the new modern sound or whatever (that's actually what I'm waiting for, I know muted brass or woodwinds are not trendy anymore, and I'm not saying modern hybrid music does not sound cool, but it lacks the skilfulness and level of compositions those old-school masters had and I'm still waiting to hear a modern sounding score that will flow like Horner's Star Trek).
My personal problem is, I have a very rigid, structured thinking. It takes me a lot of effort to make something very fluid, it's a rather exhausting mental exercise to me. But I've noticed, you are good at that by nature. Some passages of your music are so nicely fluent yet comprehensible. So it's just me, but I wish I could hear more Goldsmith-esque and Herrmann-esque pieces from you.
And since you have quite a relatively big following of people who are into modern orchestral music, and you actually are in the business, it could start make them think about their compositions or music they are listening to more deeply.
At least I hope and think it's a trend that has to come back anyway. Where do you want to go from the current state? To even bigger sound-designy minimalism?
The problem is, when directors and producers don't have problems with having something like MI Fallout music in their films and when expectations for music are so low these days, with all that pop and rap music and whatnot, plus where do you want to learn to compose like Horner?.. It's just... the situation is not easy, the bar is low, maybe even the demand is not there except for some nerds like some of us here, but... Where do you want to go from the current state? When, at least in your conscience you know, there's someone like John Williams. Maybe I'm an idealist, but I have this old-school notion of when knowing what can be done, I can't settle for less. Hence I study music.
This may run over to off-topic, but I used to listen to a lot of rock and metal and such, but once I started listening to those golden era hollywood maniacs and their ilk, I can't get excited for new Tool or Immortal or Dimmu Borgir or whatever as much as I'd want to because I know it will be 4x riff A, 4x riff B, repeat, solo, verse, chorus, the end. I've noticed people have nice musical ideas, but they can't compose. They are songwriters and not composers, or how to put it, I think you understand me. I'm now used to these wealthy developments and modulations and what not and I'm listening to the new Abbath songs and thinking "this could have been way more interesting and lead to somewhere or something". Anyone can grab a guitar and repeat some riff 4 times, then add some another riff and repeat it 4 times and here you go, a new song. Then you go listen to some piano only piece from Mozart or an organ only piece by Bach and you realize you can do so much more with your ideas even when they are simple and using just one instrument. I think all musicians should start to study more, not just us who try to replicate an orchestra with samples.
So, yeah, that's like my opinion on this topic. Cheers!
That depends on what kind of music that modern composer want to make. Some of the popular film music put there can be written without much knowledge about music theory - or harmony, but the more a composer learns, the larger palette of 'colours' will be available. The potential caveat: Many of those who have studied how others do things end up with either sounding like those they have studied - or as someone who want to sound like those they have studied.is music theory essential for the modern music composer?
Of course, you do. Even when anyone says, they only know the 'basics' - that itself is also music theory. You cannot do anything without learning the basics.
Of course, you do. Even when anyone says, they only know the 'basics' - that itself is also music theory. You cannot do anything without learning the basics.
But I could show a person how to use a DAW. No music theory required (NMTR).
They could then load Scaler. Select a preset. Export midi to DAW. (NMTR)
Replace each track with different Kontakts, (NMTR)
Load Damage. Press a few keys. Quantize (NMTR)
I'm not convinced music theory would have been involved in this would you?
Music theory is most certainly involved in this too but instead of you using it you let the machine do all the work and make all the decisions for you. And as a wise man said, f&*k the machine
Modern media composers don't need theory..absolutely true. But even in that discipline why one might think not knowing is ok is beyond this old git. How good do you want to be? I always wonder if the DAW has made it too easy for everyone to think they can compose. Still, good music can and is written from scratch, so it's cool I suppose....
Postlude....Threads like How do I...? Why can't I?.... etc. are all symptoms of not knowing theory.