What's new

dahl5 Drama Regarding VSL Support

DaddyO

Senior Member
I understand, fahl5, that you consider you were only trying to get the support that was rightfully yours. I also understand that you are convinced you would not have received that support without adopting the tactics and tone that you did. What you believe is an unjust ban from the VSL forum probably triggered your vehement response. Finally, you must be frustrated that some responses to your post do not, in you opinion, seem to appreciate what happened and how you have dealt with it.

All that said, from my experience in life you can achieve the same things with a direct approach covered with honey rather than vinegar. This may be your normal experience too, but you may have felt in this case it did not apply. Or you may feel you used no vinegar at all.

People react to heat with a heated response.

I don't know quite what to make of this thread, but I agree with the content and tone of muk's response above.

Best wishes for succesful use of VSL products going forward.

P.S. - I thank you for the work you shared on VI Pro matrices. I benefited from that, so much so that I created a folder named Fahl in my Custom Data Folder to hold matrices and presets set up based on your ideas.
 
Last edited:

miket

Senior Member
I haven't followed this latest drama closely, but for what it's worth, my experiences with VSL support have also been on the lower end of the quality spectrum, mostly due to unresponsiveness. I've never had to poke and prod developers to even acknowledge that they got an email before.

I wouldn't presume to say that this is common, since most of you seem to have positive feedback, but it's definitely not unheard of. Some developers have support that is utterly beyond reproach. VSL is not on that list as far as I'm concerned.
 

ProfoundSilence

Senior Member
the basis for your argument is very divorced from reality. Untested rape kits, interviews with victims where law enforcement makes excessive effort to question/convince the victim that maybe they read the situation wrong. Constant cases of people mistrusting the victim's claims in favor of the accused reputation. Countless cases of people convicted of rape, but given a slap on the wrist (I'm still looking at you Brock Turner). Hell, many states and countries still have laws that aim to punish victims of rape.

This is why I'm saying take the accusations seriously, not as fact. You have to consider the possibility that it is true and investigate. Not under the idea that the person is guilty, but that there is a possibility of guilt if the evidence supports it. I didn't say we should assume he's guilty, I'm saying we should assume there's a possibility that her claims are true. As much of a possibility of his guilt as there is his innocence. We should assume that there is a possibility he could do it because if we assume that because of his reputation it couldn't possibly be true, we go in doubting the evidence. If we go in assuming he is guilty, we go in searching for only the things that support our preconceived assumptions.

The most dangerous case of "he's not that kind of people. there's no way he could have..." logic comes up almost every time with mass shootings. Almost every family related to a shooter says "I never saw it coming. He was always so nice". We can easily blind ourselves to the truth by painting some rosy picture of innocence based on reputation. Reputations are made, they are not always a sign of completely sound characters.

again, ot saying he's guilty, I'm just saying his reputation is not proof that he's innocent either. Her professional situation and accounts are not evidence, but they are claims that should be seriously investigated for the truth.
I'm really not even going to read what you posted, probably because it's not based on experience - but rather some regurgitated talking points. Go ahead and call your local law enforcement and ask them how to get a rape test kit. It's not about mistrusting victims, it's about not taking away someone elses rights without evidence, which in the case of no evidence results in someone pissed that merely saying someone raped them doesn't lock them up. Reminds me of when tumblr's started saying 97% of rapists never go to prison, which was actually just that 3% of rape accusations lead to a conviction. The idea that you're going to base rape kits(one of the few evidence based measures we even have) are unreliable - over what??/ fucking words on facebook dude????????????????????

Anyways, back to reality - it's really this simple, you can be outraged now - and possibly be wrong, OR you can just wait a month or two and then be outraged. If it's true here's the difference in my strategy:

you being mad now won't un-rape her
you being mad at jeremy 2 months in advance won't do a single thing

If it didn't happen and we follow your strategy:

you help a salty ex ruin an artists life and career for her 15 minutes of fame
you have to stick to the position that the court system failed(appeals exist for a reason)
or you look like an idiot.

Look at all those people who jumped on Niel DeGrasse - they all look like idiots. Being mad in advance does ab.so.lu.te.ly.no.thi.ng for anyone, other than trying to pretend you're a good person over the internet.

As if being mad at a rapist is somekind of noble seperating feature of yours.

I got news for you pal, if she called law enforcement when it happened - he'd be behind bars within 24 hours. Stop listening to the internet, they aren't experts. While the identities of sexual violence are not public information(due to HIPAA) being arrested for it IS. You'll find plenty of scumbags getting thrown in the slammer in your nearest big city - just pull up their mugshots.
 

ProfoundSilence

Senior Member
K pal, I'm sure you and your entire family are all police officers and lawyers, and yet you think rape test kits can be wrong, but a tearful story on facebook is somehow to be treated as fact until proven otherwise?(I'm glad you're not qualified to take anyones rights away) If I'm being harassed by law enforcement for calling after being raped, and they try to talk me out of it, I'd do what anyone with half a brain would do - and pull out my phone and demand they explain exactly why they aren't going to look into it/take you to a hospital to get a kit. If it's a domestic violence situation regardless - there is very likely going to be rescue staging anyways, unless your local law enforcement(never lived in san fran or cali for that matter) is a steaming pile of garbage. Even if you're going to jail and request medical evaluation you'll get it. This is why your statement about being law enforcement and having a family full of lawyers seems like total rubbish. Trying to picture with a straight face someone with a badge using a user name "chocobitz825" which is literally lower cased, snack - and seemingly random number. Not hating on your user name, but it certainly doesn't give off a SFPD vibe. If by working for the police department you mean payroll, hr, records, ect - I guess - but I'm going to have a hard time believing you were a sworn member of law enforcement at any point, so your opinion is literally no different than someone off the street.

and yes, any legal team worth anything would just say disable social media. Any sane person would as well - because the truth is irrelevant in the court of public opinion, so you're just more likely to have more anxiety/depression/stress while people comb through your social media to dox you so e-warriors can get some nutjob to napalm your grandparents house.
 
Last edited:

chocobitz825

Senior Member
K pal, I'm sure you and your entire family is all police officers and lawyers, and yet you think rape test kits can be wrong, but a tearful story on facebook is somehow to be treated as fact until proven otherwise? If I'm being harassed by law enforcement for calling after being raped, and they try to talk me out of it, I'd do what anyone with half a brain would do - and pull out my phone and demand they explain exactly why they aren't going to look into it/take you to a hospital to get a kit. If it's a domestic violence situation regardless - there is very likely going to be rescue staging anyways, unless your local law enforcement(never lived in san fran or cali for that matter) is a steaming pile of garbage. Even if you're going to jail and request medical evaluation you'll get it. This is why your statement about being law enforcement and having a family full of lawyers seems like total rubbish. Trying to picture with a straight face someone with a badge using a user name "chocobitz825" which is literally lower cased, snack - and seemingly random number. Not hating on your user name, but it certainly doesn't give off a SFPD vibe. If by working for the police department you mean payroll, hr, records, ect - I guess - but I'm going to have a hard time believing you were a sworn member of law enforcement at any point, so your opinion is literally no different than someone off the street.

and yes, any legal team worth anything would just say disable social media. Any sane person would as well - because the truth is irrelevant in the court of public opinion, so you're just more likely to have more anxiety/depression/stress while people comb through your social media to dox you so e-warriors can get some nutjob to napalm your grandparents house.

you seem to lack an ability to read(?)

I didn't say rape kits are wrong, I'm saying there are many cases of them not being taken in a timely manner, and many cases of them not being tested, and far too many cases of them being lost. Its not the test thats wrong, its the handling of them that is flawed. As for my username somehow misrepresenting my experience and my family's, I apologize I didnt choose a cop friendly username 10 years after doing the job...I'm a professional musician now, so didn't feel the cop part was relevant these days. Plus, its a depressing ass job that I'm glad my father told me to quit. No rewards there.

SOOO your opinion trumping my experience, I suppose there's no winning, but you don't seem to understand how laws work. Yes, they vary per state and county but in general, it doesn't matter how much you take out your phone and demand action, there are legal limits to what officers can do. As I previously said, if too much time has passed, and its impossible to immediately assess that a rape took place, you have to take incident reports, and you can detain the accused and try and maybe hope for a confession, but if there's not enough evidence, that person will be released pretty quickly because the law gives them that right if they're not being actively charged with a crime. to charge a person with a crime you need evidence....or at least enough concrete factors to take it to court there. Rape kits are part of that evidence and when it can be done in a timely manner, it is preferred, but a number of factors fuck that process. Like victims not feeling safe or comfortable to immediately report incidents, or take such an invasive test after a traumatic experience. Stating again, many counties have backlogged and lost rape kits, so that fucks up yet another process. The ability to threaten victims into retracting their claims, another problem. The fact that some officers don't believe victims of rape and don't take the reports seriously. I had superior officers who did that. Fucking pissed me off. Other things that fuck up cases are typos in incident reports because they can argue that if you made any mistakes in your written report you must not have been paying attention to details and that can lead to a report being thrown out. An extreme case but it does happen. Its why many officers take their own notes around those incidents so that they have reference if they're ever called to court.

You seem to think the process of justice is, "report, arrest, guilty, done" but it's not. It's reporting, investigating, follow-ups, checks, tests, court procedures, and many other steps that make this a long procedure. This isnt like arrest on a friday night and they're in prison by monday. This is months if not years of court shit depending on the factors of the case.

Anyways it doesn't matter, because I'm speaking from experience and you're speaking from some half assumption of how it should work. Its a nightmare, it's depressing, and most times the victims just fucking lose. despite that, I'm still not calling for a witch hunt against the accused, but I say take the claims seriously because what happens to a lot of people when they see these cycles play out over and over again is they get cynical and dismissive of both sides. That's a factor in why a lot of DV cases don't get full attention because after you've taken the 20th report from the same victim who ended up back with their abuser, you start to wonder what the point is. It's a good thing that victims of rape are feeling empowered to speak about it because we can pick apart the whole system. The abuse of the system from both sides. Nothing is more depressing than a victim feeling self-defeated and ditching their chance to take their abuser to court because they feel the system won't have their back.
 

ProfoundSilence

Senior Member
Right, so he was just a misunderstood good guy, not a scumbag who took PR advice to do everything he could to sugarcoat his scumbaggery after the reaction it got. Public outrage was definitely useless and very very bad there.
wow, how very big brain.

find me 1 of the millions who died because they didn't get that medicine? because facts???


here you go buddy,

Uninsured
If you are uninsured and meet eligibility criteria, you can get DARAPRIM for no cost"

from idk the actual website of the medicine he bought. Ya know, like anyone who had a single shred of critical thought could take the time to do.

"

Commercial/Private

If you have commercial or private insurance, you may pay as little as $10 out-of-pocket for your prescription*"

incase you thought maybe insured people couldn't get it
 

chocobitz825

Senior Member
So now without having read it, my belief has plummeted further.

now you have someone claiming long after the occurance, conveniently knowing 1.) it wont hold up in a court and 2.) since it can't be proven true it probably can't be proven false - so people who CHOOSE to side with the victim have plenty of room to do so. 3.) absoultely nothing will be legally done, but she'll win by fucking up his life over heresay.

This is exactly how you create a culture who doesn't believe victims, if that is her goal. 0 of the possible outcomes lead to her being a good person at this point. "Best case scenario" she let a predator run loose because she didn't report it to law enforcement. Unlike captain chocobitz here - any kind of domestic battery(sexual or not) can see you locked up that night. During that time, law enforcement help you arrange a restraining order. Sure you might be freaked out for a bit - but that's better than countless other victims fearing the same exact thing. The chances you'll be snuffed out in your sleep by your crazy ex is pretty low - and the chances he'll end up in bars(and throwing away his chance of proving innocence) is by showing up when you have a restraining order and attacking you.

Done with this ridiculous conversation - as I stated before, until there is a guilty verdict - this is fan fiction.
lol you're hilarious, its kind of cute.

let's talk restraining orders. The first step is responding to the incident. taking an incident report, and then yes, requesting that a judge authorizes a restraining order. That generally goes well. The problem is what happens after that. First, it has to be served to the other party. Some people who are used to the process are good at dodging that. After that you can't arrest someone for claims of violating a restraining order. That's why they're so ineffective. If all it took was saying "this person violated the restraining order, arrest them now!" it'd be open to abuse by people who lie and say someone is someplace they weren't. Unless there is evidence of a violation, like proof of phone calls, email, communication or video evidence, or the officers see it, then they can't just arrest someone for it. Officers have to just take an incident report about the accused violation and add it to the pile for the court date.

The likelihood that you can be harassed and assaulted by someone you have a restraining order against is actually too high given the purpose it's supposed to serve. It's probably better now since with smartphones you can take video evidence, but still, there has to be proof of violation for it to be effective.

(EDIT: for reference, here is the information for California.


As you'll see a large portion of enforcing the order falls on the victim. documenting, getting medical proof of abuse, gathering reports, etc etc. reasoning being, if the officers cant confirm the incident, all the "evidence" needs to be provided for court)
 
Last edited:

miket

Senior Member
wow, how very big brain.

find me 1 of the millions who died because they didn't get that medicine? because facts???


here you go buddy,

Uninsured
If you are uninsured and meet eligibility criteria, you can get DARAPRIM for no cost"

from idk the actual website of the medicine he bought. Ya know, like anyone who had a single shred of critical thought could take the time to do.

"

Commercial/Private

If you have commercial or private insurance, you may pay as little as $10 out-of-pocket for your prescription*"

incase you thought maybe insured people couldn't get it
Ok, so you just don't read. Duly noted.
 

ProfoundSilence

Senior Member
Ok, so you just don't read. Duly noted.
very nice rebuke of presented evidence.

1.) I make a statement
2.) you roll your eyes as if it's just some hot take
3.) you produced 0 evidence of your point of view, only taking the media's word for it.
4.) I produced evidence, directly from the horses mouth(In plain text from the actual website)
5.) you deduce that I can't read.

Sherlock you've done it again.
 

miket

Senior Member
very nice rebuke of presented evidence.

1.) I make a statement
2.) you roll your eyes as if it's just some hot take
3.) you produced 0 evidence of your point of view, only taking the media's word for it.
4.) I produced evidence, directly from the horses mouth(In plain text from the actual website)
5.) you deduce that I can't read.

Sherlock you've done it again.
You've forgotten step 6, wherein, if you ever manage to grow more of a brain, you look back at all this and end up in a coma from embarrassment.

But hey, Jeremy will thank you, I'm sure, for helping divert this thread away from those mean people verbally harassing him. You're the real pal here.
 

fahl5

New Member
It looks like Martin from VSL solved the problem, which was apparently a hardware problem. I don't see a thank you from dahl5, and worse, we're instead seeing more ranting. VSL is a classy company and doesn't deserve this, plus it creates a bad vibe on the forum, so I moved a pile of posts to the Drama Zone.

(For the record, I was not contacted at all by VSL, who have a general policy of letting all comments here, even negative ones, stand. This was not a request by them.)
To be correct. He has not "solved" it what he has done was to answer at first "not our problem, just go for another harware" Only after I was insisting here publicly on a more serious problem research he started to inform him self about the exact mistake and their possible reasons. And soon he started with this kind of real problemresearch, he at least pointed me on some tests I was able to run additional to those I already did by myself. So we at least could narrow down the problem to be related to unregular behavior of two core in the 8core CPU.

That was definitly not the "Solution" but at least a first helpful step.
It was me in contact with Intel who was now able to figure oiut that the first estimation that there would be any hardwareproblem was as I always expeceted of course not right. The problem was related to an inconsistency of the Bios-Version used which could be finally be solved by myself with an Bios-Update.

To sum up, as usual the first reactions have been again not at all helpful, only after insisting Martin at least started what I would always expect from a professional support a serious problem research. That at least helped to finally let me solve the problem after still many hours I spent to understand, test and solve the Problem.

So to state "Martin would have solved the problem is simply not the case, at least he helped a bit and this is more than what I usually could expect from what VSL calls "Support" which in my humble opinion is definitly not in anyreal reliable professional way.
 
Last edited:

novaburst

Senior Member
The problem was related to an inconsistency of the Bios-Version used which could be finally be solved by myself with an Bios-Update.
I think this is why there can be so much confusion, with the developers and users, when we purchase MB or for that matter new PCs we are generally encouraged to update the bios the the latest version,

Also when we purchase from VSL we are encouraged to have everything upto date.

As I have said before these sort of things can course a lot of hating to the developers becuase of our own lack of understanding of our machines and we are so quick to point the finger at someone else.

When we purchase software generally it is at our own risk and most of the time we are to blame when things go wrong becuase we try to put new software on a broken system,

This is a general statement.

But let this thread be a reminder of how things can quickly go the wrong way becuase of the user lack of knowledge of their own system.
 
Top Bottom