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Cubase vs Logic Pro X

I started on Logic Pro 9 and used it to develop my recording skills. But then they stopped updating it and then came out with LPX. Around that time I was already starting to look around for other DAW's because I felt limited in what I could do with LP9. I use to record with Zack Ohren at Castle Ultimate Studio in Oakland,CA and he was a beast in Cubase. then I started seeing other guys using it and seeing all the cool editing features like slip editing, how you can group tracks, use fx channels and VCA faders on top of all the awesome MIDI functionality.

It's true that you have to find something that works with your workflow. It's like a guitar, there isn't a single guitar that's best for every style. That said, once I found Cubase I haven't looked at any other DAW's haha.
 
Cubase..I used Logic from version 2. Almost exclusively except for a year period where I used cubase during Apple's transition to a mac only Logic.
I would honestly consider myself one of the most hard core defenders of Logic since day one, and there are things that drive me batty that I keep thinking will be fixed and never are..

Logic used to be the performance king on mac but as long as you are happy to work at 64 or even better, 128 buffer, Cubase has now matched it's performance and often exceeds it by plugin count to the value of around 10%.
So the Logic performance advantage is now moot, unless of course you want to work at 32 buffer, where Logic still trounces all other mac DAW's (and before someone jumps in and says Reaper.. no..not on mac.. Logic beats it in all dsp tests of all kinds unless I set reaper to a massive amount of look ahead which makes it effectively sluggish to respond to even a playhead position adjustment, therefore useless IMO. Basically, to match Logic's dsp results I had to set reaper to over 2 seconds anticipative processing).

Anyway, the one i dearly love is Pro tool, for ME, the workflow and gui is just like my brain is wired. But unfortunately, it is still plagued with issues IMO and is lacking a lot of must have features.. I will say though, if you don't do any midi, i still recommend PT. Of course the OP is doing a lot of midi, therefore in this context, Cubase and Logic are "better" choices.

Anyway.. Basically, i used PT on and off for 2 years as an alternative to Logic, and i WILL keep my sub up for 99 bucks a year to have studio compatibility, but I have ditched Logic as my main DAW after more than *20 years* in favour of Cubase.

Since all DAWs have their pros and cons.. I can list some of why I prefer Cubase, and others can decide whether those features matter to them as much as me.

Firstly, I will get out of the way, Logic beats Cubase in five areas.. Better collection of midi plugins, 32 buffer with large number of input tracks armed,(or to even play a single heavy cpu VI like diva/codex etc)..it's plugin and synth collection (tape delay, camel audio stuff, chroma verb, retro synth, Alchemy, others), and finally, the superb tempo features in 10.4.. the audio auto quantise is absolutely stunning on acoustic instruments even, where PT fails miserably (for example), and Cubase is "not bad".

Now, for absolutely everything else, literally everything, I feel Cubase is a far superior piece of software..

Just some features that make it outstanding:
-A proper midi drum editor.. Simple as that.. Take any VI or External drum synth, name each note whatever you want, and program away with the brush..Or see drum midi you played in or imported on a proper drum grid and edit with extreme ease with the brush. There is also a midi plugin step sequencer for a more hardware like approach. I don't even know of a step sequencer for drums that just integrates with logic, other than ultrabeat, but that works only on ultrabeat, and isn't retina. It's SO hard to see and so blurry on HiRes screens.
-Vst Note Expression, the way it's meant to be.
-The info line for any clip or note selected.. it's all there in one line.. Logic you have to click and hold or open event lists
-Automation precise editing with numerical values, Logic can only numerically edit 127 steps.
-Instant audio engine response.. Logic takes 2 to 3 seconds for responding to most audio editing commands during playback
-No ghost effects/Phantom notes - Logic still has the effects buffer issue and I still start songs on bar 5, which I started to do back at version 3 as it even had the same issues with it's own effects then.
-control over GUi colour without any hacking or purchasing of external skins. You can also make your own COLOUR *palette* for clips/tracks..Logic's is fixed and they even removed a standard red of any kind in Logic X!
-Automation is in time regardless of latency in signal path. Cubase's delay compensation is still superior to Logic and audibly reacts instantly to any latency changes in plugin.
-Truly unlimited tracks depending solely on computer power.. Logic for example has 255 instr tracks.. That really isn't enough for some film composers.
-256 hardware inputs and output vs 64 in Logic. This in itself is a massive, massive feature.
-Proper selectable midi device input for every single track.. whatever you like.. assign for example one controller to play certain tracks, another to play others, and so on. With one click on the main page. No environment needed.
-Chord track - It's actually incredibly intelligent but the real strength is that after you compose, you can have vocals and other samples follow the key of the chords.. No manual editing bit by bit or usually just some minor manual changes needed after. I don't sing, so work with vocal samples, and this is absolutely huge for me.. I just tick one box and they are in key with my song. Done. And not to forget the chord track is powerful at creating progressions as well.
-clip gain is done right there on the clip.. not in an inspector box.. Another huge difference.. Although, Pro tools is the king here.. for audio levelling.. just.. wow.. amazing. Again, clip volume changes are heard instantly.
-performance now at least equals or surpasses Logic at 128 buffers and up, usually equals it at 64, but lags at 32. Since I use a DSP solution to monitor, 128 is fine for playing Vi's and i really do get better performance than Logic
-Another huge workflow thing for me.. when you click on a Vi track, just like Logic, the track goes into "live" buffer mode.. i.e the buffer set in preferences..BUT, to take a track out of that mode in Logic, you have to literally select a different track... there is no other way.. So if you need to open a plugin GUI but are low on resources, and are in one page arrange/inspector view with Logic, you need to select the track, open the plugin GUI then select an audio or inactive track to take the VI track out of live mode. In Cubase you just press a button and can keep the correct track highlighted. Just this little thing is such a huge time saver for me.
-proper, smooth audio editor
- Selectable pre and post fader inserts PER track! You can literally drag the slider for any track to which effects you want to be pre or post fader. There is absolutely no way to do this in Logic without using an external gain staging plugin.
- Audio file to tempo preview happens 5x as fast as Logic.. as soon as you move to the next file, it's instantly audible and synced. Logic needs to buffer, buffer, buffer.. 3 seconds delay again when browsing during playback
- For me this matters, to many others it won't, but Cubase supports offline audio file transfer to and from Revoice pro.. Logic has to all be recorded in real time.. it's SO slow.. Other lovers of Revoice Pro will know what I am talking about.
- I will say, Cubase's time stretch on drums is awful and phasey, even with just 5% change. Logic has an auto slicer and is far superior and I have never had it fail, even with extreme tempo stretches. Cubase you need to literally open each individual file in the audio editor, create slice points and slice the file, then crossfade each slice. it's the only way to get decent sounding tempo change on drum loops.. So if you happen to work with rhythmic loops, Logic is superior for this, truly.
- Nothing beats Halion Sonic for an included all round rompler, however for synthesised stuff Logic has a massive edge.. Cubase in built synths don't even come close. Also, Logic's modulation and delay effects kill Cubase. If i was still using Logic, i'd sell a lot of my third party plugins, in Cubase I need them.
- If you are using a lot of UAD effects, Cubase any day.. cause you can add and remove them on the fly and the PDC updates instantly, unlike Logic which has that.. yep.. 3 second delay. And again, Cubase can play back it's automation where you actually draw it.. Logic's shifts depending on what plugin delays are in the automation signal path.. i.e it's out of time.
- Automation in Cubase is way better..just the little things like the info line when a dot is selected, for example, and in logic, there is STILL an issue where you can't stack two dots completely vertically at the same timeline point without workarounds. Cubase, you just drag the dot and it hard stops. Curves are also much easier to adjust without key commands or separate tools.
- The Control Room with it's integrated loudness metering.. it's very powerful and often overlooked.
- Cubase logical editor is more powerful than Logic's.. You can create presets to do anything, but it's a deep learning curve. There are some excellent preset macros to get you started with a lot of clever midi functions with one click.
- as good as Logic is at midi, Cubase is simply better. it's a composer's complete toolbox IMO. There is also in place editing which logic does not have in any capacity

Honestly, Cubase is simply better software. They keep on thinking of the little things to speed up workflow.. whereas Logic's basic workflow is the same as it's always been, with the same downfalls that never get attended to. it's still based on midi resolution for a lot of things, as in, 127 steps, has the same audio engine delays it's had for 20 years, the same phantom effects tails it's had for 20 years, the same environment under the hood it's had for 20 years..It's like Apple just keep adding more and more on top of something that needs fixing at it's core, and it just became too much for me and I switched. Couldn't be happier now..truly.
Just all these little things add up..BTW, I do maintain use of Alchemy very easily with the purchase of the cheap Apple mainstage app, and control it from normal midi tracks in Cubase..

Cubase ROCKS! Truly!
 
@TNM, couldn't agree more. Sounds like we had a similar journey. I was a hardcore Logic user for years, know Pro Tools inside and out, have gotten very very deep into most of the major DAWs, including DP, Studio One, Reaper, Ableton, Bitwig, etc. I think I have a pretty objective view of the DAW landscape -- and overall, Cubase wins.

Cubase is not the best in some very specific, sometimes niche areas (to add to your list: DP's Chunks feature is incredible, as is Studio One's tabs; Reaper's scripting ability blows me away and is cool as all hell; etc), but overall it wins. Its workflow and MIDI features across the board are totally unmatched by anyone else. Finally its GUI is totally on par with or better than everyone else -- clean, fluid, works well with very high resolution monitors (which I prefer), "zones" makes working with a single monitor really great (which I prefer).

It's like Apple just keep adding more and more on top of something that needs fixing at it's core

is exactly right. In a way, it mirrors iOS's strange decline, in that it's a fundamentally simple (in a fragile sort of way) design, and therefore can't be easily added-to without entropy fucking up everything. Cubase has sort of Android-ed over the years by basically exclusively focusing on refinement in every sense of the word. It's super cool. I love Cubase a little bit more with each release.
 
You're right, this has been asked a million times. I'd suggest searching for some threads about it and making up your mind based on that.
True - and also, both apps have been updated since most of the old posts were written. If this thread could serve as an overview of what most users who know or have both apps think their best features are and what they are missing, it could become quite useful.

Two of the things I miss the most in Logic (which Cubase has) are Capture Recording which works also in stop mode (because I often play in stop mode), and the ability to unload samples and sampler ram from memory (in general, and when freezing a track).
-The info line for any clip or note selected.. it's all there in one line.. Logic you have to click and hold or open event lists
Nice function, but/and the so called Event Float in Logic pretty much does the same thing.

"-Automation precise editing with numerical values, Logic can only numerically edit 127 steps." True, but it interpolates between these 127 points.

"You can also make your own COLOUR *palette* for clips/tracks..Logic's is fixed and they even removed a standard red of any kind in Logic X!"
Yes, that's a major wish from many Logic users.

"Logic for example has 255 instr tracks.. That really isn't enough for some film composers."

More tracks would be a lot better when building templates. But this funciton will become a lot more useful if/when Logic can unload sample (and other) RAM from tracks/Kontakt.

- as good as Logic is at midi, Cubase is simply better. it's a composer's complete toolbox IMO. There is also in place editing which logic does not have in any capacity
It is better in terms of functions, but there are many areas in Cubase which are less user friendly than Logic IMO/requires more steps to get simple things done. So I still use Logic after having bought Cubase. Don't know when/if this will change. Still - seeing how slow Logic's development is in areas that are important to me, I somehow wish I had started with Cubase earlier. Or that Apple, and not Steinberg had acquired the Sibelius team.
 
Just wanted to add Cubase's retrospective record.. In Logic the transport has to be running. In cubase i can sit there playing without any pressure, then if i happened to play something I liked, i can insert it on the timeline in one second. Logic has to be in playback mode to do that.. so why even bother, just put it in record mode to begin with lol!


@Vik, Yes, i know Logic has high internal resolution for automation and has 4096 steps or something when you hold the modifier key to vertically drag points. BUT, if you want to match two points exactly numerically, you only have 127 choices to choose from, otherwise you have to match precise zoom levels and go up and down till you "might" land on it. Sorry but Logic's inspector is OK, sure, but that info line in Cubase is brilliant the way it's integrated. Now, tell me, don't you think it's twisted than it's 2018 and logic is the only "pro" daw in existence where you can't grab a clip itself and raise and lower clip gain? I mean, come on! Of course Logic has some stuff that is better, like any DAW has it's strengths. I guess because I am using drum loops less and less and programming original drums more and more, i truly appreciate Cubase's drum grid editor.. Also, now that I mainly use external synths, it drives me crazy in logic that i can't just click on a midi track and choose the hardware input device for that track. That's just stupid.
And since automation timing is fundamentally broken in logic when one uses latent plugins, that's a serious CORE issue.. even ableton fixed that with Live.. I dare not use latent plugins in Logic as I am tired of moving around automation by hand and it not striking on the grid where I have drawn it. I don't know how it doesn't drive everyone batty, especially UAD users, where you might use 4 UAD effects on one track, and therefore automation can not be drawn on the grid and play where you drew it (in Logic). don't even get me started (lol) with the automation timing of any plugin if there happens to be a linear phase EQ in the same signal path!

I am curious what you think Logic does better or faster.. For me, there are two main things.. the way flex works on the main timeline in the main window, and the quantize in the inspector that always tells you the status of a clip's quantise. Yes, those things I do love. But it's not enough.. Apple haven't done an update for 5 months now, let's just hope they have at least got some serious fixes cooking for 10.5.
 
I am curious what you think Logic does better or faster..
Quoting myself from another post (slightly modified) abut things I really like in Logic:


The Voice Separation Tool in score

The Step Input mode which allows entering notes or chord in real time + moving forwards (or adding length to the currently played note/chord) with either a Key Command ("Sustain Inserted Note") or the sustain pedal

The ability to grab a bar with the Layout tool and drag it to eg downwards to make it the first bar in the system below

The key command Automation:Cycle Through Automation Parameters (which now also works in the main window).

The Duration Bars in score (although I wish using the Scissor tool on them would divide the note in two)

The Explode Polyphony function, which changes the look of a track in score, so each polyphonic voice gets its own system

"Trim note to remove overlaps for selected"

"Convert Sustain Pedal to Note Length"

Separate Articulation ID for each note

"Zoom to fit Selection or all Contents" is a very useful key command

"Show/Hide all plugin windows" (although it doesn't open the MIDI instrument plugin on the current track even if no plugin windows are open)

The ability to prelisten to pathces in the Library by selecting them with a click

Beat Mapping

Fix Displayed Note Positions and Durations

"Independent note"

Dedicated key commands for specific tools (but pressing them twice doesn't take you back to the previous tool)

The Note Attributes window (but it should have been an always visible area in the score Inspector, allowing for instant changing selected notes

"Remove Overlaps" (but I miss "Create Overlaps")

The different link modes (which makes Logic always display the content of your selection elsewhere)

Double clicking the MIDI In tool allows quick editing of note pitch/velocity from a MIDI keyboard (but doesn't work for chords)

Contextual menus everywhere

An very easy to use and well planned Key Command editor

Good built in help functions

Almost all actions can be performed by key commands

Logic's mixer looks better

The integrated score editor seems more advanced than the integrated one in Cubase*

*It's great that Steinberg acquired the Sibelius team, but I think it will take ages before they integrate Dorico and Cubase fully.



I like that Apple has some kind of overall control over the user interface in Logic, resulting in fewer situations like some of the stuff I've seen in Dorico - so Steinberg obviously doesn't have that kind of control. (And, for the records, I also sometimes strongly dislike that Apple has this control, because it seems to me that the Logic team listened a lot more to their users - and not only their 'pop culture users' - earlier.

Btw, I made the list a while ago, and haven't been updating Cubase to the latest version, so Cubase may have some of these things now. Please correct me! :)
 
I love the features and functionality in Cubase so much, overall it's definitely just ahead of the pack in that regard.

However there are a few things that often have me reaching for Logic.

1. It crashes. Not too frequently, but enough to be frustrating. It's also hangs on quit. Just for giggles I left it quitting while I went away for the weekend, and the beachball was still running 3 days later.

2. They add some genuinely useful new features, but they tend to be not quite complete, or worse, don't work properly. It often takes a paid update (or several) just to get a feature to work as it should.

3. I know this is subjective but for me the UI is awful. It feels like a toy from the 80's, and nothing is 'fluid'. Once a few instances of Kontakt are added it starts to slow down. It's still not retina ready after almost 6 years since the displays came out. I use a magic trackpad rather than a mouse, and it's not possible to use gestures to zoom etc - something even Studio One does very well. It just feels clunky.

So overall, I probably prefer Cubase, but find myself drifting further away with every Logic update.
 
I think the UI is by far the biggest issue I have with Cubase, especially how plugin windows are handled. I just want my Kontakt 5 window to open in the exact same place everytime and an option to make it switch according to the track I select. Right now windows are opening wherever they want, very often being half off the screen, and it's driving me nuts.

The other big thing are the big file sizes and long saving times with big disabled templates (although that's a problem with literally every DAW I think). I'm not sure if something like this is technically possible, but I wish something like this would exist: for every project you have a seperate file in which all the 'big' data is stored (like plugin settings, Kontakt instrument settings etc... everything that makes project file sizes so big). And then in Cubase you have a 'decouple' button (like in VEPRO), which when enabled makes it so that Cubase only saves recorded midi, volume changes, etc.. So that way you could occasionally 'recouple' to save any changes made to Kontakt instruments, but when you're only recording and composing you can stay decoupled.
I don't know if this makes any sense... :grin:
 
I have used both extensively and what follows is my personal opinion.

Cubase is a German luxury sedan. A brilliant, technical tool with many many possibilities.
Logic is a vintage British motorcycle. Usually perfectly functional, great for my purpose, sometimes quirky.

If I had to learn one and live with it for the rest of my life, it would be Cubase.
But I don‘t love Cubase, I love Logic, and have loved it for its imperfections for a long time.

Ever since they implemented the articulation editor and Apple introduced the iMac Pro, I have not switched on my slave systems or used Cubase once.

Make of it what you will, for most of us the DAW we use is a love story and not a question of specs or objectivity. That makes us artists as opposed to scientists, I guess...
 
I love the features and functionality in Cubase so much, overall it's definitely just ahead of the pack in that regard.

However there are a few things that often have me reaching for Logic.

1. It crashes. Not too frequently, but enough to be frustrating. It's also hangs on quit. Just for giggles I left it quitting while I went away for the weekend, and the beachball was still running 3 days later.

2. They add some genuinely useful new features, but they tend to be not quite complete, or worse, don't work properly. It often takes a paid update (or several) just to get a feature to work as it should.

3. I know this is subjective but for me the UI is awful. It feels like a toy from the 80's, and nothing is 'fluid'. Once a few instances of Kontakt are added it starts to slow down. It's still not retina ready after almost 6 years since the displays came out. I use a magic trackpad rather than a mouse, and it's not possible to use gestures to zoom etc - something even Studio One does very well. It just feels clunky.

So overall, I probably prefer Cubase, but find myself drifting further away with every Logic update.

Wow! These are the same reasons I'm still reluctant to go "all in" with Cubase. I bought the 9.5 upgrade when it was on sale recently, so I'll register and get the free Cubase 10 upgrade when that happens....hopefully the retina support will be there.
 
Wow! These are the same reasons I'm still reluctant to go "all in" with Cubase. I bought the 9.5 upgrade when it was on sale recently, so I'll register and get the free Cubase 10 upgrade when that happens....hopefully the retina support will be there.
Still on sale until 31. aug. My hands are itching to click upgrade.
 
Trial of Cubase 10 is out. Sadly, Steinberg still keeps the arrow tool separate from the range tool. Every other DAW seems to have a smart multi-tool (Logic, Pro Tools, Studio One, Ableton). Why Steinberg why??? Just a small niggle but combined with other workflow decisions, makes Cubase feel rather clunky overall to me. Lot of clicks to get things done. Such a great MIDI editor though. If Studio One adds articulation maps and cleans up their UI, could be a strong contender (unless you need notation).
 
One big thing for me is cost - I've owned both and with Cubase I had to pay a high update fee every year just to keep up to date, on top of the high cost for the DAW.

I haven't had to spend anything on updates for Logic in the 5 years that I've owned it. Plus, the DAW was pretty cheap to start off with.
 
One big thing for me is cost - I've owned both and with Cubase I had to pay a high update fee every year just to keep up to date, on top of the high cost for the DAW.

I haven't had to spend anything on updates for Logic in the 5 years that I've owned it. Plus, the DAW was pretty cheap to start off with.

At the moment a crossgrade to Cubase 10 Pro is £145, this is frankly astonishing and makes getting Cubase Pro cheaper than buying Logic. Since making my previous post I have also learned that you can buy the .5 upgrade during a sale but hold off on activating it, then when the next major version comes around you can upgrade to it for free using the .5 update.
 
One big thing for me is cost - I've owned both and with Cubase I had to pay a high update fee every year just to keep up to date, on top of the high cost for the DAW.

I haven't had to spend anything on updates for Logic in the 5 years that I've owned it. Plus, the DAW was pretty cheap to start off with.
I would happily pay an upgrade fee if Apple would fix the delay compensation and automation issues...
 
I am a Cubase user since Pro24 on the atari ....
But i am considering switching to a double DAW configuration because i am moving to a two machines configuration (Mac Pro 5.1 plus Mac Book Pro).
The idea is to work on compositions while traveling/commuting and to gig with the Mac Pro.

In this configuration, the Cubase eLicenser dongle is a big pain in the ass; i do not think i want to work on the Paris metro with the very precious dongle popping out from my MacBook, and i would be quite stressed to bring it to a gig, for example; so, i am considering a double configuration Cubase/Logic, or may me Cubase/Live depending on how gigs come out.

One thing that i am not happy about Cubase, and that shocked me when i discovered that Logic behave similarly, is that neither of the two proper integrate with the Mac OS windows management and virtual screens (Mission Control, in Apple speak). I usually use at least 3 or 4 virtual screens with Cubase (sequencer windows, mixer windows, VIs, mixer related plugins), and there is no way to save the screen configuration and getting it back when you load the project. At least Logic is able to do a proper full screen on the Mac, without losing the space of the useless windows border. Ableton Live behave better on this, but not with the plugin windows.
 
The Duration Bars in score (although I wish using the Scissor tool on them would divide the note in two)

The Explode Polyphony function, which changes the look of a track in score, so each polyphonic voice gets its own system

"Trim note to remove overlaps for selected"

"Convert Sustain Pedal to Note Length"

Separate Articulation ID for each note

"Zoom to fit Selection or all Contents" is a very useful key command
Can anyone using Logic please check if Explode Polyphony works in the current version?
 
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