Discussion in 'Your DAW (Digital Audio Workstation)' started by MarcelM, May 11, 2019.
Here's a much shorter, yet insightful video:
(OMG Thank you, I was looking for this videos for years now. I love how these guys are "zero BS" )
It seems that Logic has some kind of analog mixing desk simulation goin on. By pushing Gain (in the inspector on the left) saturation algo is in process.
I recently discovered this by sending somewhat low volume Cubase tracks to a friend for mixing and I expected from him to just add Gain - a pure gain like Pro Tools Clip Gain (Cubase has a similar thing). But being not experienced he used this gain feature in logic that made a mess.
Maybe Logic has a similar thing going active all the time on it's faders? - since they added saturation algo in the feature that should (and is) clean and pure in every other DAW. This is bad in my book - if I want saturation, I will choose algorithm I like and add it myself, but from DAW I expect pure math and headroom of the 32bit floating point.
where do you get your information that Logic has analog mixing desk simulation going on?
I'm talking about Gain feature in the inspector. It doesn't work like in PT (clip gain) or Cubase, but it behaves like an analog desk, more you push it, more saturation is introduced. (At least my friend's version behaved like this). In PT and Cubase you just get pure gain with no distortion. In Logic, that's obviously an analog console simulation that they call it Gain.
But I'm not saying Logic has a similar thing on faders on 0. I'm not using Logic, I'm just wondering if they added this sim in the Gain feature, they might have done the same on faders as well, it would certainly explain why it sounds less bright. I don't know though.
which inspector are you referring to?
I am unaware of any documented feature that does as you describe. There are countless ways to misuse a DAW into distortion, including not only LogicPro, but Cubase and others as well.
Must be a nightmare for Hans watching TV.
Turn it off Mary!!! It was done in Logic.
Urgh, that was an awful movie. The DAW added too much colour to soundtrack, I wanted to be sick.
Might not be called Inspector, it's the track menu on the left with many controls. Try adding 30db of gain on low level audio (-40db signal for example). And I'm not speaking of converter clipping, there is no peaking above 0db digital scale.
And I'm not sure, as far as I know, how you can missuse DAW into distortion except overloading DA converters which has nothing to do with DAW. Otherwise, when you see red lights (in Cubase) on faders, those are just indicators, there is no distortion if the master signal is below 0. In 32bit floating point there is 1500db of headroom.
Yes, I mean exactly this ! Indeed it seems to me this.
In a of totaly "nerd" moment I had done a lot of Tests in the past, with Cubase/Nuendo, ProTools HDX, and Logic.
And the result was clear for me. For example 10 Tracks in the session , not using effects like reverbs, equalizers.( with same plug in ) and creating a simple "flat" mix with same values, pan law etc, and exported..., the null test was total. Each DAWs created a file that was canceled. But when the MIX started to be more complex, activating the sends, the groups, equalizers and plug ins (even the same), the null test failed. So I agree with you, when pushing the Daw engine, in these situations there is some differences, even the delay compensation management is different between the various Audio Engines. So also with many Virtual Instruments there could be differences. Maybe little phase differences, or I don't Know... which create this little audible differences.
I remember that in the past this difference was even more audible.
Now maybe a little less, but there's always something.
I would be interested to see some example projects that demonstrate this
Pan law, bit depth (especially in plugins), converters. Also, the earth is flat because Hans Zimmer.
Here is an example that shows that DAWs are different when using automation. Do it yourself with your DAW, it's easy.
I’m with you Alex, I hear the Logic difference. I can pick it out as well.
I also notice that the difference goes away somewhat when you pull up your tracks into Protools. I noticed the biggest sonic difference came from Logic v7 to v8, I liked 7 more, I’m just resigned about it now.
I’m not sure I would call Cubase simply brighter, it’s more robust somehow, more detail. I noticed it with Virus TI, and that’s not a plugin, but it might be an AU vs VST thing ??
Is Logic even sample accurate midi to audio? I’m of the impression that when you make audio edits, it’s not sample accurate unless you check that little box to make phase accurate edits in the groups.
But with real audio, I can get good results in Logic if I don’t over process, its the instruments that I find weaker sounding, IMVHO
( note to self, this post won’t be making me any friends over at Apple in the Logic dept, especially as I update to C10 right about now )
that's a new one ...
Even if your audio nulls, your perception of it is still affected by brain chemistry, atmospheric conditions, time of day, lighting, mood, expectations, bias, quantum mechanics, priming from previous listens, blood pressure..
There is no 100% objective listening. Your brain is lying to you every second. I say we just accept everything for what it is, and make music rather than null tests and marginal distinctions.
can you make your own key commands in CUBASE? Like in Logic!? And is there an advantage to me by switching to CUBASE from logic? I like the cross platform ability so i will NOT be tied to APPLE!
Cubase sounds better ..... . :-D
Highly doubt that. Pan law doesnt do a thing until you start panning things around. To be honest the only thing th pan law is good for is when you let stuff move with the pan pot.
FWIW....About 10-15 years ago I tried Logic 8 for awhile, but .... I switched back to Digital Performer, because I swear that I got more detailed sound coming from DP.
I'll be taking advantage of the Cubase update, as I'm now a Steinberg fan due to loving Dorico and their iOS Cubasis...and, I don't want to keep on updating and switching Macs and OSX's....will get over to Windows 10 this years too.
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