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Cubase+VEP users, questions from new VEP user

mrd777

Active Member
Hi guys,

No luck on the VSL forums... hoping to try here instead....

QUESTION 1)
- I'm having trouble keeping instruments connected to my daw after I restart. It seems that the instruments only keep connection if I shut my DAW computer down first, then shut down the VEP Slave, and then when I want to restart things, I have to boot up the Slave first, and then the DAW.

- So do I need to basically always have the slave running before I start my Daw projects? otherwise it will not automatically reconnect? And if I save the project when the Slave system is OFFLINE, it will save everything as 'disconnected', and force me to reconnect everything?

- If this is indeed the way VEP behaves, that would be a nightmare as my slave system crashes every now and then (blue screen, still not sure why), and I will no way to save my connections!


QUESTION 2)
- Say I load my default template, but then want to adjust the template slightly.

For example, use different mics on different patches, toggle certain settings on different libraries, etc...

If I were to save the server project at that point, it would overwrite my entire server project file, right? If that is the case, should I then be saving a new server project file along with each project I do, to avoid over-writing my 'default' template?


Specs:
Windows 10 Pro on each computer
32 jiggabytes on each system
Core i7 on each
Cubase 9.0.4
VEP 6
Connected via direct ethernet cable.
Static IP on both machines. 192.168.137.51(slave), and 192.168.137.1 (daw)
 

MatFluor

Senior Member
I don't use Cubase, but two VEP slaves.

My slaves always keep running essentially - in my mind, that's what they are there for. They always run so I don't have to have my samples loaded all the time.

Reconnecting might be a bit annoying, but depending on how you art ar up, it shouldn't take you too much time (for instance I have 6 VEP instances, 1 for strings, 1 for Brass....) Which means I connect 5 VEP plugins - fairly quick and straight forward. Of course for that, I run them all decoupled.

Yes, if you make changes and want to save, you re-save the server project under another name. Or you could run it coupled, meaning that your VEP server would load your configuration for the project. And your configuration is saved with the plug-in in Cubase. Refer to the manual on that one, I don't run coupled, but it might be more what you look for.

And yes, your slave essentially should "always run" - or, be powered up before your DAW. It works when you spin it up afterwards, VEP detects the new system, but as said, reconnecting is not that of a pain, depending on how you set it up.
 
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mrd777

Active Member
I don't use Cubase, but two VEP slaves.

My slaves always keep running essentially - in my mind, that's what they are there for. They always run so I don't have to have my samples loaded all the time.

Reconnecting might be a bit annoying, but depending on how you art ar up, it shouldn't take you too much time (for instance I have 6 VEP instances, 1 for strings, 1 for Brass....) Which means I connect 5 VEP plugins - fairly quick and straight forward. Of course for that, I run them all decoupled.

Yes, if you make changes and want to save, you re-save the server project under another name. Or you could run it coupled, meaning that your VEP server would load your configuration for the project. And your configuration is saved with the plug-in in Cubase. Refer to the manual on that one, I don't run coupled, but it might be more what you look for.

And yes, your slave essentially should "always run" - or, be powered up before your DAW. It works when you spin it up afterwards, VEP detects the new system, but as said, reconnecting is not that of a pain, depending on how you set it up.
Thanks for replying!

So even if I did have, say, everything in ONE instance and routed to different outputs, it seems to me that I still have the issue of reconnecting each instrument track one by one.

But yeah, I would love to leave my server running, but crashes and power issues wouldn't allow in my setup as of now...
 

MatFluor

Senior Member
No, you connect your VEP Plugin (in Cubase) to the instance - everything else is inside Cubase (or VEP). Your Midi tracks should send e.g. to VEP 1-1, VEP 1-2 etc. And should just not produce sound without VEP connection - but template wise you shouldn't have to make anything there - just your main VEP Plugin (instrument track I guess)
 

shomynik

Active Member
Hey there, I m running cubase with master+slave setup via vep.

Yes, if you want them to be all connected automatically, then you have to have vep loaded (and connected via lan) and then open your project. But I don't keep my slave ON all the time...for instance, I compose with strings on my mastrer, then when I want to add woods and brass, power up my slave, connect manualy woods and brass (very fast cause you only need to do one connection per vep instance), and continue. Project saving is a problem if you are losing your slave all the time. I change things on the slave all the time during a project, like mics and stuff, so I save project in the end of the day by coupling everything and saving. This way I get everything in my project file.

But again, you really have to have a stable slave for this. In your case, by having unstable slave, I would, like you mentioned, save the server file (for that project) every time I make change there. If slave goes out you can easily open the same configuration in vep, but you still have to connect all the instances manually with the daw if you dont restart the daw project.

Regards - Milos
 
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mrd777

Active Member
Hey there, I m running cubase with master+slave setup via vep.

Yes, if you want them to be all connected automatically, then you have to have vep loaded (and connected via lan) and then open your project. But I don't keep my slave ON all the time...for instance, I compose with strings on my mastrer, then when I want to add woods and brass, power up my slave, connect manualy woods and brass (very fast cause you only need to do one connection per vep instance), and continue. Project saving is a problem if you are losing your slave all the time. I change things on the slave all the time during a project, like mics and stuff, so I save project in the end of the day by coupling everything and saving. This way I get everything in my project file.

But again, you really have to have a stable slave for this. In your case, by having unstable slave, I would, like you mentioned, save the server file (for that project) every time I make change there. If slave goes out you can easily open the same configuration in vep, but you still have to connect all the instances manually with the daw if you dont restart the daw project.

Regards - Milos
Thank you Milos for the insight.
 
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mrd777

Active Member
Hey there, I m running cubase with master+slave setup via vep.

Yes, if you want them to be all connected automatically, then you have to have vep loaded (and connected via lan) and then open your project. But I don't keep my slave ON all the time...for instance, I compose with strings on my mastrer, then when I want to add woods and brass, power up my slave, connect manualy woods and brass (very fast cause you only need to do one connection per vep instance), and continue. Project saving is a problem if you are losing your slave all the time. I change things on the slave all the time during a project, like mics and stuff, so I save project in the end of the day by coupling everything and saving. This way I get everything in my project file.

But again, you really have to have a stable slave for this. In your case, by having unstable slave, I would, like you mentioned, save the server file (for that project) every time I make change there. If slave goes out you can easily open the same configuration in vep, but you still have to connect all the instances manually with the daw if you dont restart the daw project.

Regards - Milos
I think I understand what to do better now.

I was putting each instrument in it's own vep instance, and now if I put one VST Instrument and put like 20 instruments in there, and run them on midi tracks instead, i can simply reconnect that one VST instrument and all 20 tracks will be back online.

However, this is more of a pain still because when you want to edit tracks, adjust library settings, etc... you have to hunt the track down in the list again by scrolling around until you find it!

Guess since i've been using instrument tracks forever, I didn't realize this. Now I have to find out how to send reverb and such from midi tracks now that they are not instrument tracks.
 

shomynik

Active Member
I think I understand what to do better now.

I was putting each instrument in it's own vep instance, and now if I put one VST Instrument and put like 20 instruments in there, and run them on midi tracks instead, i can simply reconnect that one VST instrument and all 20 tracks will be back online.
Yes, I am running one vep instance per section/sample library. For example, my whole hollywood brass libray is in one vep instance, filled with quite a few PLAY instances (one play instance per instrument section - trumps, horns, etc... ) loaded with all the articulations/patches. I use one instrument track that hosts that vep instance, and a lot of midi track routed to that instrument track.

However, this is more of a pain still because when you want to edit tracks, adjust library settings, etc... you have to hunt the track down in the list again by scrolling around until you find it!
That is true, but how much/often do you change things in the kontakt instance? For me, it's not a workflow breaker, after a while you're used to where things are and you find everything you need very quickly.

Guess since i've been using instrument tracks forever, I didn't realize this. Now I have to find out how to send reverb and such from midi tracks now that they are not instrument tracks.
Reverb sends got nothing to do with midi track but with your instrument/kontakt/vep audio outs (audio returns from vep to cubase) that you route according to your needs. You can even host your verbs in vep (i dont do it though). It would be too long of a write for me at this time, but cubase/vep manual, or some youtube tutorial would do better job than me anyway :thumbsup:
 

shomynik

Active Member
One explanation... midi is data, instructions that you are controling your instruments with. To your reverbs you send audio from your instruments, audio signal that your instruments outputs based on your input data, your midi.

Now, cubase instrument tracks confuse you cause they are actually a midi and an audio track combined in one, they have midi input and audio out, and they host (in the middle, right? :grin:) a vst instrument. :)
 
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mrd777

Active Member
One explanation... midi is data, instructions that you are controling your instruments with. To your reverbs you send audio from your instruments, audio signal that your instruments outputs based on your input data, your midi.

Now, cubase instrument tracks confuse you cause they are actually a midi and an audio track combined in one, they have midi input and audio out, and they host (in the middle, right? :grin:) a vst instrument. :)
Thank you for all the replies. All of it is definitely helpful.

I think I'm ready now to fully start working on music again, but just 1 last question it seems!

So I made a master VEP template. Then I made a Cubase template to match and connect all my instruments. All good and ready to go... Except..............

I started a new project, and wanted to edit an instrument. So I turned de-coupling off on that one particular instrument so it can save the data WITH my project. All good and dandy. Now I have my master VEP template which is on its own, and then I have my project on it's own - and when I load my project, it will have VEP load the project's version of the instrument. All good so far, working as expected. Not really....

So if I start a NEW project, i have to essentially reload my whole template. Otherwise it will just keep the data from the previous project. For example, on 'project A' I wanted close mics on my strings only, so I don't use de-couple, and I save my project. Then on 'project B', I load a new project in the hopes that I can start from the default templates I made, and guess what? VEP does not re-load the master strings file. It will still use the setup from 'project A'

I tried to uncheck 'preserve' when on my 'project A' cubase file, but when I close that project, it simply will unload the instrument in VEP.

So in other words, a lot of manual work has to be put into VEP, and I'm not sure if it's worth it based on my experience.... unless i'm just doing something really dumb.


My entire reason for getting VEP was so I could have things just loaded and ready to go, and have a master template I can start quickly working off of, and when I SWITCH projects, the master template instruments stay loaded in .... unless i've changed them in the previous project, in which VEP would obviously have to reload those ones, but it wont reload the instances that have changed back into the default instance.

One work around is for me to re-load the VESP server project entirely to get back to my default tempalte, but that defeats the purpose of vep all together.

So....... not sure you should use VEP for your setup if you are someone who wants to constantly manipulate the libraries as you work. Maybe VEP is only good for people who want to set-it-and-forget-it??

Sorry for the long post. Hope I made sense in all of this.

Thanks again!
Dave
 

MatFluor

Senior Member
Just from my side - I'm definitely a "set it and forget it" guy. I spent my hours balancing, choosing mic positions etc to have a Wellness rounded template (the work is never done of course).

That also means, with decoupling, that all projects that I'm working on will benefit from my changes.

I don't use VEP (or VEP locally earlier) for things I want to control - be it a synth or things like Spitfires Evos. I specifically don't put them on the slave because these are settings I change on a project per project basis - my big template is meant for me "standard orchestra" - I don't need to fiddle around with it. Everything else is locally hosted.

So what you could do as well is host a local VEP server which is coupled. Then you have the advantage of having your "set it and forget it" core on the slave, and your "per project" stuff on your main. Or maybe run two servers on one machine for this case?

As said, I have those per project VST in my daw directly and disabled - so I just click a button to load them if I need to (I work with DP).

I wonder how others handle your case - but for me, VEP shines for "set it and forget it" templates, and less "non templates" - I would define your case as that. A VEP-template is there to take away all tedious routings, settings and loading times, but you tinker with the setting for every track as it seems. But think about loading some instruments locally (those that you often change)
 
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mrd777

Active Member
Just from my side - I'm definitely a "set it and forget it" guy. I spent my hours balancing, choosing mic positions etc to have a Wellness rounded template (the work is never done of course).

That also means, with decoupling, that all projects that I'm working on will benefit from my changes.

I don't use VEP (or VEP locally earlier) for things I want to control - be it a synth or things like Spitfires Evos. I specifically don't put them on the slave because these are settings I change on a project per project basis - my big template is meant for me "standard orchestra" - I don't need to fiddle around with it. Everything else is locally hosted.

So what you could do as well is host a local VEP server which is coupled. Then you have the advantage of having your "set it and forget it" core on the slave, and your "per project" stuff on your main. Or maybe run two servers on one machine for this case?

As said, I have those per project VST in my daw directly and disabled - so I just click a button to load them if I need to (I work with DP).

I wonder how others handle your case - but for me, VEP shines for "set it and forget it" templates, and less "non templates" - I would define your case as that. A VEP-template is there to take away all tedious routings, settings and loading times, but you tinker with the setting for every track as it seems. But think about loading some instruments locally (those that you often change)
I suppose that one solution is that on projects which you need to edit the libraries, or yet, even add new instruments, is to add them in a new instance and have that instance un-preserved(since it shouldn't remain project to project), as well as coupled to your cubase project file. That way you are only adding instruments WHEN you don't want to mess up your master template, and those instruments will re-load themselves when you open that project file.

And that means for projects you are about to start new on, you will still have your master stuff loaded and ready to go, and the previous per-project-based-tracks will be unloaded to save your resources. The only downside I can see on this method is that you have to make new instance of libraries sometimes.... It might not be too often, hopefully, since a lot of stuff in libraries have cc-automation possibilities.
 

shomynik

Active Member
Thank you for all the replies. All of it is definitely helpful.

I think I'm ready now to fully start working on music again, but just 1 last question it seems!

So I made a master VEP template. Then I made a Cubase template to match and connect all my instruments. All good and ready to go... Except..............

I started a new project, and wanted to edit an instrument. So I turned de-coupling off on that one particular instrument so it can save the data WITH my project. All good and dandy. Now I have my master VEP template which is on its own, and then I have my project on it's own - and when I load my project, it will have VEP load the project's version of the instrument. All good so far, working as expected. Not really....

So if I start a NEW project, i have to essentially reload my whole template. Otherwise it will just keep the data from the previous project. For example, on 'project A' I wanted close mics on my strings only, so I don't use de-couple, and I save my project. Then on 'project B', I load a new project in the hopes that I can start from the default templates I made, and guess what? VEP does not re-load the master strings file. It will still use the setup from 'project A'

I tried to uncheck 'preserve' when on my 'project A' cubase file, but when I close that project, it simply will unload the instrument in VEP.

So in other words, a lot of manual work has to be put into VEP, and I'm not sure if it's worth it based on my experience.... unless i'm just doing something really dumb.


My entire reason for getting VEP was so I could have things just loaded and ready to go, and have a master template I can start quickly working off of, and when I SWITCH projects, the master template instruments stay loaded in .... unless i've changed them in the previous project, in which VEP would obviously have to reload those ones, but it wont reload the instances that have changed back into the default instance.

One work around is for me to re-load the VESP server project entirely to get back to my default tempalte, but that defeats the purpose of vep all together.

So....... not sure you should use VEP for your setup if you are someone who wants to constantly manipulate the libraries as you work. Maybe VEP is only good for people who want to set-it-and-forget-it??

Sorry for the long post. Hope I made sense in all of this.

Thanks again!
Dave
Well yes, it functions exactly how you desribed it. When I change a project, I myself reload everything, vep inluded. Just want to make sure everything's up as it was saved, be it a project or a template, and I dont do it that often, usually working on the same project a whole day... and the next one.... and next :shocked::2thumbs: BUT, what you can try in order to get what you want is this:

You have to save your cubase template together with vep, all PRESERVED and COUPLED (as you want every conbection to be in that saved file). Then, when you are changing your project (after you made some tweaks in vep during previous project), you just close cubase (vep stays the same as everything's preserved), and by opening that cubase template, vep should offer you (blinking arrow in the toolbar of every instance) to reload only the instances where it notices something's different from that saved file (your template in your case).

Try it, it should work like this. It's the same thing with changing different projects, those blinking arrows will pop up, but you really have to save all the projects COUPLED. (There is a general button for doing that in ALL your vep instances at the same time - easy!) :)
 
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mrd777

Active Member
Well yes, it functions exactly how you desribed it. When I change a project, I myself reload everything, vep inluded. Just want to make sure everything's up as it was saved, be it a project or a template, and I dont do it that often, usually working on the same project a whole day... and the next one.... and next :shocked::2thumbs: BUT, what you can try in order to get what you want is this:

You have to save your cubase template together with vep, all PRESERVED and COUPLED (as you want every conbection to be in that saved file). Then, when you are changing your project (after you made some tweaks in vep during previous project), you just close cubase (vep stays the same as everything's preserved), and by opening that cubase template, vep should offer you (blinking arrow in the toolbar of every instance) to reload only the instances where it notices something's different from that saved file (your template in your case).

Try it, it should work like this. It's the same thing with changing different projects, those blinking arrows will pop up, but you really have to save all the projects COUPLED. (There is a general button for doing that in ALL your vep instances at the same time - easy!) :)
Yes, I have seen this 'load' buttton (arrow) already, and I turned the settings to automatically load the incoming data, but again it will not revert back into my default template when I close the project. It just keeps the new data from there on out.

You said
"When I change a project, I myself reload everything, vep inluded"

This would be a nightmare for me. Why? If you're working on a film or tv show and want to switch quickly and do 4 cues a day(using separate projects), good luck because you're waiting for load screen for a long time. That could kill 30 minutes just due to loading.

It seems the best fit for me is to just not touch the default template i make, and just add new un-preserved instances when I want customization.
 

shomynik

Active Member
Yes, I have seen this 'load' buttton (arrow) already, and I turned the settings to automatically load the incoming data, but again it will not revert back into my default template when I close the project. It just keeps the new data from there on out.

You said
"When I change a project, I myself reload everything, vep inluded"

This would be a nightmare for me. Why? If you're working on a film or tv show and want to switch quickly and do 4 cues a day(using separate projects), good luck because you're waiting for load screen for a long time. That could kill 30 minutes just due to loading.

It seems the best fit for me is to just not touch the default template i make, and just add new un-preserved instances when I want customization.
It does keep data thr same on closing, but it should revert to the saved dats on opening new file, if you saved everything coupled. Maybe you should turn off that automatic arrow thing, and try manualy just to track what exaclty's happening.
 
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mrd777

Active Member
It does keep data thr same on closing, but it should revert to the saved dats on opening new file, if you saved everything coupled. Maybe you should turn off that automatic arrow thing, and try manualy just to track what exaclty's happening.
Yes, as you said, if I save everything coupled. But then it makes everything re-load. Lots of loading again, which is the same as me hosting all my instruments inside my own Cubase daw.
 

shomynik

Active Member
Well not everything, just an instances that you messed with, others, untouched, can just stay loaded. Right?

And, dont you use a slave? You need vep for slave...

But I run vep on my master as well because, when everything's decoupled, my cubase saving times are really fast, as it doesn't save vep configs. Otherwise, with the size of my template, my saving times are from 7-10 secs which is a huge workflow breaker.
 
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mrd777

Active Member
Well not everything, just an instances that you messed with, others, untouched, can just stay loaded. Right?

And, dont you use a slave? You need vep for slave...

But I run vep on my master as well because, when everything's decoupled, my cubase saving times are really fast, as it doesn't save vep configs. Otherwise, with the size of my template, my saving times are from 7-10 secs which is a huge workflow breaker.
Yes, using a slave. I just did a test project and it seems best for me to simply have my master instruments stay as is, and don't change them, and then load new instruments (unpreserved, and coupled in daw) for the ones that do change.

So now I get the main instruments to stay loaded all the time, and the save and load times for project are very quick too.
 
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