Cubase Pro 10.5 or Studio One Pro 5

Trancer

Member
After your opinions on Live 10 and Cubase Pro 10.5, I would like to have your opinions and feedback on Studio One Pro 5.

Here, it is not a question of instability of not knowing and asking a lot of questions for a dozen Daw, but just knowing the most ergonomic, reliable, efficient, having the most useful functions without rocking in the gas plant .

Having a certain resemblance, but apparently better point for Studio One Pro 5, better ergonomics, which one to choose between Cubase Pro 10.5 and Studio One Pro 5?

Here beyond trying it, I would like to hear from those who know each of the two daw or even those who have used both and compare the pros and cons.

I really like Live 10 it is true, but the possibilities of Cubase (perhaps too gas-powered) and Studio One Pro 5 (easier to handle compared to Cubase), make me say that more complete than Live, even if not the same operating philosophy.

It s true not launching clips, but editor of drums and patterns which are not bad and which are a bit like the drum rack in Live 10.

Then for Studio One Pro 5, there is the Atom SQ controller which looks pretty fucked up.

For Studio One Pro 5 there is also the Faderport 16, which also gives it an advantage, a complete system from the same company, therefore, compatibility and stability should be ensured.

Quite a few questions, but it's to target my future purchase.

Thank you in advance for your answers
 
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Trancer

Member
Thank you for your reply.

Can you explain to me why limitation in the orchestral, what do you mean to yourself?

But your preference is still Studio One understood so well?
 

jbuhler

Senior Member
The more tracks you have, especially VIs, and the longer the composition the more likely you are to encounter issues with S1. For me S1 works really well up to about 30 tracks of VIs and a 10 minute long song. Above 60 tracks and it gets unwieldy for me. (Others report working with 100 tracks without issue so it might have something to do with my workflow.) when the song gets longer than ten minutes I have had issues with file corruption, especially if I’ve used the scratch pad extensively. In any case these days I tend to use S1 for short small projects. It has a lot of things I prefer to Logic.
 
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Trancer

Member
Thank you for this very interesting feedback, but a little worrying all the same as maybe limited in the number of tracks.

Apparently there is no problem with Cubase Pro 10.5.
 

jbuhler

Senior Member
Thank you for this very interesting feedback, but a little worrying all the same as maybe limited in the number of tracks.

Apparently there is no problem with Cubase Pro 10.5.
I mean Cubase has its own issues, so there's that, but it seems the preferred solution for working with large templates (though other DAWs can work with large templates too). Most people seem to prefer its midi implementation. There are also quite a lot more Cubase users, I think, so it's somewhat easier to get help when you run into difficulty.
 
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Trancer

Member
For my use only of vst, the only hardware part it will perhaps be for a Vermona drm mk3 and a sequencer.

Really a shame in any case the limitation for Studio One Pro 5.

Cubase used a lot, even in electronic music, not as much as Live, but quite present anyway.
 

jonathanwright

Senior Member
I personally haven't had any issues with Studio One and large projects (Mac).

Cubase has become unstable and clunky for me in recent releases, so for longer video projects I’ll, use Logic.

Its worth downloading the demo to see how your system copes.
 

khollister

Senior Member
First some background - I have been a Logic user for a very long time with a short Cubase/PC off ramp in between my MP 5.1 and the announcement/release of the iMac Pro (my current machine). I was never comfortable with several aspects of Cubase, notably the exploding windows UI and the sheer complexity and non-intuitive way of doing certain things. There is no doubt it probably wins the feature/capability checklist, but I never really enjoyed using it.

Fast forward to now and once again, there is a bit of uncertainty in the roadmap of high-end Apple machines going forward, to say nothing of the shocking price of even the current Mac Pro. While I prefer to stay on MacOS even at a price premium, it is not clear how the ARM thing will shake out. So I was again shopping for a cross platform DAW.

To jump to the punchline, I took advantage of the recent PluginAlliance deal for the S1 Pro competitive upgrade for $200 and installed it on both my 2016 MBP and 2017 iMP. THe iMP rig has an Apollo X6, 2 TB satellites and a ton of plugins (both instruments and effects). Both machines are running the latest version of Catalina.

So far (early days), I'm really happy with S1. THe GUI is very responsive and snappy, the workflow and ease of use is great, I have had zero issues so far with either installation and I have experiemnted quite a bit on the iMP with many VST's and my UAD effects. No sign of the Kontakt issues some have reported and my initial tests on CPU efficiency have been encouraging (very close to LPX @ 128 buffer/48K). I did disable AU and am using just VST based on numerous reports that VST works better than AU with S1.

The caveat is I do not use templates (maybe I'm an idiot), so it is highly unlikely I will achieve crazy track counts like many here do. So far I'm very pleased with S1 ver 5.
 
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Trancer

Member
Thanks for your feedback.

Ah good so unstable that that, not very reassuring.

I am not sure about Mac, I will be sure about a pc platform.

So, logic unless error on my part not compatible on pc.

It is true that Studio One Pro 5 seems much easier to access.

What scares me a little is that I'm only going to use vsts and effects plug ins that are virtual except maybe for the drums part.

If there is in some configurations a problem with about thirty tracks that is not reassuring.

Because my future projects will be much greater than around thirty vst tracks / virtual plugins / samples and most certainly a Vermona drm mk3.

So I need a daw that can handle compositions with a very large number of tracks without any problems.
 

khollister

Senior Member
I need to retract my enthusiasm for S1. While it appeared to be as CPU efficient as Logic while playing 4 to 6 parts on a 4 part multi (Kontakt, Diva x 2, Repro-5), when I laid in some MIDI, added a NADA track and then duplicated everything 3 times, I was unable to play it back at 128 - and it wasn't close.

When I did the same thing on Cubase 10.5 (which I recently updated to from 9.5), I can play 4 copies of all the tracks and still have CPU headroom. I also see that 10/10.5 has greatly improved the exploding windows GUI. This is all on a 10 core iMac Pro BTW.

My advice based on my limited experimenting, go Cubase. I imagine it runs even better on Windows 10.
 
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Trancer

Member
thank you for your reply

Just apparently catastrophic on Windows 10, instability, crash, slowness, high cpu load.

Since Cubase version 10, there would be a lot of instability, which at first glance is not the case with Pro 9.5 version.
 
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Trancer

Member
a stable, reliable, efficient daw that can accept very large sessions and apparently neither Studio One Pro 5 nor Cubase Pro 10.5 can offer this stability, reliability and an acceptance of large projects, this last point more a concern for Studio One Pro 5.

It's still surprising to have this kind of worry, constraint.
 

Film Sounds

New Member
S1 has tabbed CC lanes AND multiple if you want. Cubase is a screen real-estate hog
S1 notation is great and fast to work in, fits any # of notes into a tuplet/run
S1 had track data import before Cubase, they just didn't sell it as a big update item.
S1 has a transform tool similar to the velocity compression handles in Cubase.
S1 navigation and workflow is vastly superior over all. It's not even a contest.
S1 is far better at doing a daytime theme if you use a glossy laptop outside (Surface Book here)
S1 has no dongle. As a Surface user, I hardly ever get out my key anymore. Why bother?
S1 has better humanize and mass note editing options by far, easier to access by default, etc.
S1 has vastly superior vst CPU monitoring. Clipping warnings on export and bouncing.
S1 has a -200MB installer, easy for mobile or quick re-up time. Cubase installers can be clunky.
S1 has user-voted features. Dev takes time, but they're building a reputation for a reason.
S1 was started by a former Steinberg dev manager & the author of VST3, plus they hired Logic and Pro Tools developers to switch companies. Cut-throat, but smart for dev too. Not AVID, at least. ;)

Cubase has the transform feature that is a clearly more agile.
Cubase is a bit more stable. S1 + VEP is stable for me, but... I avoid dongles, so Cubase wins here. (They've had an unstable history. All devs have periods. So IMHO, I'd wait either one out here)
Cubase expression maps are more flexible, but take vastly more work than StaffPad to use. Vastly.
Cubase video track is great. Not perfect, but S1's video player isn't as agile.
Both have curve editing, but Cubase did a really nice job with theirs for mouse drawing.
Cubase has Dorico integration on the way. Dorico looks beautiful, shiny, and beautiful.
Cubase crashes if I detach my Surface Screen (dongle), instead of temporarily freezing. :mad:
Cubase velocity compression handles are faster to access than the transform tool. Not big, but faster.

I prefer Studio One. It has hiccups, but after using both for years, and going back and forth for various projects, I've become used to both and can comfortably use either back and forth now. S1 just clearly wins in so many small polished ways that it makes life easier. Not completely, but mostly for me. Steinberg is slower to think about UX. If they catch-up, S1 is in trouble. But if S1 adds better film features & works out stability, Steinberg is in trouble. All companies have instable periods. Depends on the build. They're fairly equal, just different.

Sorry for the novel (and some opinions), but hopefully it helps.
 

Lukas

Keyboardist / composer
I exclusively use Studio One so I can't say anything about current Cubase versions.

On my system and with my plug-ins (Kontakt, SINE Player, ENGINE, Omnisphere, Keyscape, Zebra, Sound Toys, Fabfilter, Valhalla and so on) Studio One 5 is perfectly stable and snappy. No problems with larger projects and many tracks. It's very important to know that up to date OS and plug-in versions are essential for working with Studio One, especially on Mac. I hardly use it on Mac (only for testing purposes) but currently the GUI still feels a bit smoother on Windows (although graphics / smooth scrolling etc. has improved a LOT with V5 since it supports the MacOS Metal and Skia frameworks and it will be ). There are problems with older versions of Waves and Slate plug-ins and/or older MacOS versions but updating them to the latest version should fix these issues.

And it's true that VST should be preferred over AU when using Studio One. AU is still "the" Logic/MainStage format so many plug-in developers test their plug-ins only in Logic. For example, Waves does not test the AU versions of their plug-ins in Studio One... so apart from some exceptions, make sure to use VST 3 (or VST 2 if there's no VST 3 version).

What I love about V5 is that many composer and scoring features have been added for example MPE and Note Controllers, keyswitch management, improved external instrument handling, improved note/controller MIDI editing and an integrated score editor. And I know that some exciting features are planned for the nearer future.

And what I love about Studio One in general is that you can build your own macros and organize them in custom toolbars. I'm planning to share some of my custom Note / MIDI Editing macro toolbars at some point because I think many people don't know about certain MIDI editing commands at all (for example the different Quantize or Time commands or the legato tool for adjusting legato phrases).

For my use only of vst, the only hardware part it will perhaps be for a Vermona drm mk3 and a sequencer.

Really a shame in any case the limitation for Studio One Pro 5.
Why? Studio One works great with both VST instrument and external instruments (using AUX channels).

Because my future projects will be much greater than around thirty vst tracks / virtual plugins / samples and most certainly a Vermona drm mk3.

So I need a daw that can handle compositions with a very large number of tracks without any problems.
As I said: No problems with large numbers of tracks on my system (and I'm running a pretty old i7 from 2011!!!)

Cubase. You’ll quickly run into limitations in S1 for orchestral mock-ups. And I like S1 in general.
Which limitations do you mean? I've been making orchestral mock-ups with Studio One for 8 years. And I agree that there were BIG limitations in terms of MIDI editing and template work in version 2 or still in version 3. But I don't notice any limitation anymore... all my bigger long-term feature wishes have been added in version 4 and finally in version 5.

I need to retract my enthusiasm for S1. While it appeared to be as CPU efficient as Logic while playing 4 to 6 parts on a 4 part multi (Kontakt, Diva x 2, Repro-5), when I laid in some MIDI, added a NADA track and then duplicated everything 3 times, I was unable to play it back at 128 - and it wasn't close.
I'm also using Kontakt, Diva and NADA (I wrote one of the demo songs for it) and never experienced such issues - on Windows 10 though. Do you run Catalina? And which audio interface do you have?

a stable, reliable, efficient daw that can accept very large sessions and apparently neither Studio One Pro 5 nor Cubase Pro 10.5 can offer this stability, reliability and an acceptance of large projects, this last point more a concern for Studio One Pro 5.
Well, nobody here can promise that it will run fine on your system. All I can say is that the Studio One 5 demo version (which is actually the same installation as the full version) is < 200 MB and you can test it for 30 days without restrictions. So why not just try it out, load some KONTAKT instances, duplicate them, create a test template and see how it works for you?

Unfortunately, no one can be told what the correct DAW is. You have to try them for yourself.
+1
 
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Trancer

Member
Thank you for your very precise answers and opinions.

For the moment I have not bought anything yet, I am just taking information before purchasing, in order to take what is most suitable for my use.

So, if I understand correctly, Studio One Pro 5 has no particular concerns, you just have to make sure you have all the updates in order for the different devices and instead use vsts.

What scared me a little was the response back to the limitation of Studio one pro, but, which is not a recurring problem but rather functional in some special cases.

So Studio One Pro is quite possibly a choice to be taken into account more than Cubase as I understand it.
 

khollister

Senior Member
I'm also using Kontakt, Diva and NADA (I wrote one of the demo songs for it) and never experienced such issues - on Windows 10 though. Do you run Catalina? And which audio interface do you have?
Yes, I'm on 10.15.6 and I use an Apollo X6, latest UAD driver.

So what process buffer setting do you use? - Low or Medium?
 

EgM

Game music!
I use all DAWs except the EDM ones like Ableton/Bitwig/etc, they're all capable of the very same thing.

But on the question of Cubase vs Studio One, both are just as stable as the other and I do use MANY tracks/instruments with no issues. Of the very small issues I've had in the past, most were caused by poor disk speed/latency, I changed to an NVMe and I couldn't be happier.

Seeing as Cubase and SO5 can do the same tasks for me here's some of my pro/cons:

Cubase:
+ Comprehensive MIDI features
+ Stable
+ Long time in the industry, has probably every feature available.
- Isn't updated often, and sometimes critical bugs are fixed in the next .5 or .0 version so you have to pay again to upgrade for a bug fix. Yeah, you do have to pay for .5 and .0 upgrades
- Audio tools and manipulation are not anything special
- Super dated user interface, floating windows everywhere, needs a new UX/UI specialist in the team quickly.
- Horrible mixer (to me), with sends hidden from main view with a button unless you like running your mixer in fullscreen on a dedicated screen.
- Mediabay needs to disappear! There are a LOT of other ways to manage presets in a more effective way.
- Mouse scroll is too Faaassssst!
- Dongle, meh if you have a laptop it does suck. I use a desktop so I don't care. Only valid for one dongle at a time.


SO5:
- Moderate MIDI features, but it's getting there! Missing assign midi channel to specific note then I'd be happy. It's perfectly good for anything, just have to use a workaround.
+ Stable
+ New to the game, has implemented pretty much the bread and butter needed by musicians, updates very frequently. Paid versions used to be every ~3years (v3 to v4), v4 to v5 was 2 years, and you just pay for the .0 upgrade (for 6.0 for instance).
+ Working with audio is a charm in this one, everything is in there, melodyne essential comes included
+ Clean User Interface, no 'big frames' windows, and every window is at the same level as the main app, so one won't just disappear in the back for fun
+ Mixer is my favorite from all DAWs I've seen, everything is there!! You can even see your VST parameters directly on the mixer (i.e. limiter reduced amount), EQ curve, etc)
+ Preset management is perfect for me, beats having to make project templates, just drag your prepared instrument from the folder to the track and it's set up.
+ Mouse scroll is at normal speed.
+ No dongle, just C/R serial key with presonus user/password, you can activate up to 5 machines at once. On the MyPresonus site, you can manage your activations in case one of your PCs died and you want to deactivate it.

So yeah,but stability-wise they're the same to me. Do you a favor and buy both like I did haha :D

Have a good evening! :)
 
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Lukas

Keyboardist / composer
Yes, I'm on 10.15.6 and I use an Apollo X6, latest UAD driver.

So what process buffer setting do you use? - Low or Medium?
I'm currently on 256 samples and my S1 Dropout Protection is set to maximum (that all tracks / instruments / plug-ins are running on the maximum buffer size and only the "active" track which is armed for recording uses 256 samples). If I need to record piano tracks or fast synth solos, I switch to 128. My jazz/funk/fusion arrangements are usually more lightweight and for my orchestral projects don't need the lowest available latency. I use an RME HDSP 3296.

- Moderate MIDI features, but it's getting there!
Which features are you missing...? :) I suppose "assign MIDI channels to specific notes" refers to switching articulations when working with a multitimbral VSTi like Kontakt / SINE Player / PLAY with different articulations on different MIDI channels? It's true, that's currently not possible from a single track. But what else is missing for you?