Cubase: Fix pause/stop (space bar) triggering CC1, CC7, and CC11?

berlin87

Newbie Composer
Hi all,

earlier I posted about a problem that I erroneously presumed to be linked to my CSS library.
Thanks to monitoring my midi activities (again, thank you @A.G! I discovered that hitting the space bar for pause/stop will always trigger CC1, CC7, and CC11. Please see screenshot below.

Is there a way to prevent this from happening? Assuming other people know what I'm talking about.. :sneaky:
Googling made me feel like I'm the only person in the world this ever happened to..

Cheers
 

Attachments

CDNmusic

Member
This is a long shot but may be worth sharing.

Do you have any generic remote devices or Mackie controller installed? I had a different issue than yours and it took me months to find the source of the problem which came down to Metapad by Metasystems.

Whenever a track was activated in Cubase (by selecting it) the volume for that track would lower a bit, if I go around composing a piece selecting channels throughout the process I would find out that all my track volumes were out of whack, sometimes panning would be affected too driving me crazy.

In any case, after a lot of trial and error I narrowed it down to Metapad, I deleted the GM required and all is fine now. I haven't bother trying it again, neat app but it caused me too much grief.

Like I said, long shot but maybe take a look at your devices and disable/enable them one by one to see if that somehow fixes the issue.

Good luck!
 

A.G

Senior Member
I discovered that hitting the space bar for pause/stop will always trigger CC1, CC7, and CC11. Please see screenshot below.
I noted that there is a recorded MIDI part with some CC events in your screenshot. If these CCs are 1, 7 and 11 then all is fine. Cubase chases the recorded CCs on transport start after you hit space.

If you want to test if these CCs come externally somehow, then delete all parts on that Instrument track, run Cubase and watch the MIDI monitor.
 
OP
berlin87

berlin87

Newbie Composer
Alas, while the chasing of CC1, 7 and 11 is normal behaviour, my beloved CSS instruments are the only ones affected by it. For some reason, chasing CC7 and 11 makes CSS play its own tail at the latest/highest CC7/11 volume :-(

This is so incredibly frustrating...
 
OP
berlin87

berlin87

Newbie Composer
Here's something that I just discovered:

Even with no CC1, 7, and 11 drawn in, CSS will briefly trigger a sample right after I hit the pause button.


So imagine I record a long note, let's say G4. I then delete CC1, 7 and 11 data. Hit play. Of course, nothing should be audible. But the moment I hit pause, CSS plays a sample for a brief moment.

I am seriously puzzled...
 

A.G

Senior Member
Here's something that I just discovered:
So imagine I record a long note, let's say G4. I then delete CC1, 7 and 11 data. Hit play. Of course, nothing should be audible. But the moment I hit pause, CSS plays a sample for a brief moment.
I'v seen a lot of sample libraries which KSP programing is not well done (I do not say it is CSS).
For example, CC1, 7, & 11 can be still registered in the KSP arrays after you deleted those CCs.
In this scenario the KSP programer had to add a "listening" functions which reacts on the fly.
If not, then you go into the problem you describe.

Could you try the following test methods:

Method One
1. Delete CC1, 7, 11.
2. Click the "!" icon (top right) in Kontakt to reset the Instrument.
3. Run Cubase and hit pause.

Method Two
1. Delete CC1, 7, 11.
2. Close the CSS in Kontakt and reload it again.
3. Run Cubase and hit pause.


What happens when you hit pause (Method 1 & 2)?
 
OP
berlin87

berlin87

Newbie Composer
Thank you for bearing with me, @A.G

I ran both tests after I first recorded a G3-note with CC1, CC7 and CC11 engaged. (simple crescendo for all three CCs). I then deleted the CC data. Naturally, the note was no longer audible upon playing.

Here's what transpired:


Method one

  1. No audio, but a quick triggering of sample upon hitting pause
  2. Clicking the "!" icon made no difference: same result as 1.
Method two
  1. Loud audio (as if CC7 and/or CC11 were at 127), sample stopped immediately upon hitting pause
 

A.G

Senior Member
Method two
  1. Loud audio (as if CC7 and/or CC11 were at 127), sample stopped immediately upon hitting pause
Method 2 seems to work as expected cause the Instrument reloading resets the script arrays and loads the CC default values 127 (max CC1, 7 & 11).

Now try to draw CC1 and test if there is a problem sound produced after Cubase pausing. If all is fine, continue the procedure by drawing CC7, 11 etc to find which CC# causes the issue.
 
Last edited:
OP
berlin87

berlin87

Newbie Composer
Hi @A.G

I did precisely as you told, and I can confirm that all my troubles seem to stem from something weird happening with CC1.

  • When I reload a CSS instrument without any of the three CCs (1, 7, 11) drawn in, the instrument will play, deed, at max volume.
  • Drawing in CC11 (simple bell curve) followed by a reloading of the instrument will result in a lovely crescendo <> decrescendo.
  • The same goes for CC7.

Only when CC1 comes into play, there will be this strange phenomenon of a briefly audible playing of the instrument upon pausing, even if no CCs have been drawn in.
 
OP
berlin87

berlin87

Newbie Composer
Actually, @A.G, I just learnt this problem doesn't occur at all when the velocity is to zero. Of course, literally nothing will play with 0 velocity -- but it is interesting that it will briefly trigger a sample upon pausing when there are no CCs drawn in, but velocity is at 1 or more.
 

A.G

Senior Member
Hi @A.G
Only when CC1 comes into play, there will be this strange phenomenon of a briefly audible playing of the instrument upon pausing, even if no CCs have been drawn in.
It looks that CC1 is doing something in the CSS script programing. I recommend to contact the CSS developers and ask about the CC1 behavior.

BTW. Here are some DAW CC chasing behaviors:

CUBASE

Example 1: If Cubase is not running and if you navigate back & forth, then Cubase will aways chase/send the CCs to the Instrument.

Example 2: If you run the Cubase then no CCs are chased/sent (this is a very good CPU optimization).



LOGIC

Example 1: If Logic is not running and if you navigate back & forth, then Logic will aways chase/send the CCs to the Instrument according to the following conditions:
- If the CC value is the same, then only a single CC message is sent to the Instrument.
- If the CC value is different, then two CC messages are sent to the Instrument (the old CC value and the new one).

Example 2: If you run Logic then the CCs are aways chased (this is not good because it causes an instant CPU sparking during play).
Note: There is no sense to send CCs again during transport running in case the CCs where sent to the Instrument on transport "Stop".

CUBASE vs LOGIC CC Chasing

The upper examples show that the Cubase CC chasing system is better than the Logic one regarding the CPU boosting.
 
OP
berlin87

berlin87

Newbie Composer
It looks that CC1 is doing something in the CSS script programing. I recommend to contact the CSS developers and ask about the CC1 behavior.
Ah, that may get tricky.. Alex from CSS and I tried for weeks now, I've been a real pest, haha. But he is unable to reproduce the error, and this isn't a problem he has encountered before.

Is there a way for me to peek under the hood myself?
 

yellow_lupine

New Member
Hi,
I also noticed that triggering play and stop transport controls and moving the playback locator back and forth cause Cubase to send all of my MIDI tracks (63 actually) CCs data to instrument, even when my VSTs are not connected (!).
This cause an unbearable amount of lag.
Is there anything I can make to resolve the issue?
 

Attachments

OP
berlin87

berlin87

Newbie Composer
Hi,
I also noticed that triggering play and stop transport controls and moving the playback locator back and forth cause Cubase to send all of my MIDI tracks (63 actually) CCs data to instrument, even when my VSTs are not connected (!).
This cause an unbearable amount of lag.
Is there anything I can make to resolve the issue?
Sounds like a highly specific problem — best to start your own thread, or else we’ll both be hoping for solutions whenever we receive an email update :)