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Cubase & fader controller options

pmountford

Active Member
I know this subject has been raised so many times but wondered as time goes on what solutions exist for Cubase and a hardware fader that autobanks? I know the MCU protocol has been discussed and as I understand limits the banking within Cubase. So is this the extent of the current state of play?

Steinberg CC121 - discontinued (atleast that's what a UK dealer told me today)
Faderport [classic] - not sure if this is discontinued but is still available to buy - the updated V2 I understand doesn't autobank
Avid Artist Mix - being replaced by Avid S1

Possible other solutions:
Avid Dock (questionable issue with Avid control app software over certain track count on some systems - unsure of impact of this)
Avid S1 not yet available

So for autobanking is this the extent of the support - essentially three pieces of discontinued (or soon to be) hardware?

It might sound like I'm moaning (maybe I am...) but it is surprising that with Cubase just celebrating 25 years and this is the state of play. Please tell me I'm wrong and I've missed some piece of kit that works!

How do other Cubase user's with large templates work around this?
 

Gerhard Westphalen

Scoring Mixer
Faderport is great. Not sure why the new one wouldn't autobank.

Any Eucon surface can. You can pick up a used Artist Mix or go with an S3 (what I replaced my Faderport with). I wouldn't go with the dock - too many useless buttons and too expensive.
 
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novaburst

Senior Member
It might sound like I'm moaning (maybe I am...) but it is surprising that with Cubase just celebrating 25 years and this is the state of play. Please tell me I'm wrong and I've missed some piece of kit that works!
I could be wrong but I think it's up to the developers who build the control surface to write such program such as auto bank.
 

JamieLang

Active Member
"limits the banking"? You mean folling your mouse around automatically? Because the way that it allows you to carve the mixer up into pieces with DIRECT button acesss is unique to ONLY Cubase.

The problem with many of less expensive units using the MCU protocol is that they lack the row of buttons that directly change the mixer configurations(views)...which is what allows me to consistently set mine up to carve up the mixer however one's mind wants to do so.

I'm not sure why anyone would want a fader controller to FOLLOW their mouse UNLESS it was a single channel unit like the CC121...that IS the more efficient way to mix ITB (IMO)...because it's like mouse in one hand, fader/ch in other, keyboard in between...but, once you have a bank of 8-24 faders...I don't know how that's useful.

So, I think your answer is that they "won" the MCU implementation(many years ago)...by a long shot...and the CC121 is their first party "follow the mouse"...what do you want them to implement? I mean what have you been using that the hardware "autobanked" and now it doesn't in Cubase?
 
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pmountford

pmountford

Active Member
"limits the banking"
Sorry, not a great description - but I meant that Cubase follows the track within the bank of 8 faders. Anything outside of that and it doesn't follow.

And yes, I would have though the most efficient way was to have a single fader like the Faderport & CC121 but it's always interesting to hear what others use.

I did have a CC121 for a few years until it died. Now I've had an Mackie MCU for equally many years but wondered but keep looking around to see what else is out to replace the Mackie that hash transport controls / decent jog wheel and, of course, 1+ fader that autobanks.
 

JamieLang

Active Member
Yeah, ok...I get publicly touchy because, background--I'm an audio guy who just messes with VIs for fun :) --and controller support is a real Babel point on the internets--Cubase's THIRD PARTY controller support for the MCU is unique in how WELL it works. IMO/E. As opposed to ProTools or even Logic where the same MCU is a great big waste of desk space.

I am paying close attention in the market, because one of my MCU extenders needs repair...and 8 faders is les useful to me than 1. I'd considered buying a CC121 and as many replacement faders as I could find--is that what went out on yours?
 
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pmountford

pmountford

Active Member
@JamieLang The CC121 just stopped working and wouldn't power on. The jog wheel was tiny and buttons didn't feel great for an expensive device. So I was reluctant to replace with the same. INext tried the Euphonix Transport control but the Eucon driver back then was not very reliable and kept playing up (device often wouldn't be discovered) so I moved onto the MCU - which has been solid and feels great. But now the Cubase template has got much larger, I miss the autobanking...
 

JamieLang

Active Member
I always wondered about using the AI Knob as a jog...that's what they get for doing double duty, I guess. You definitely need a real jog if you use one often.
 

colony nofi

Senior Member
As far as I know the CC121 isn't discontinued... could anyone point to some info on that?
I almost got another one (had one for YEARS and they're great) but am currently using an Artist Mix right now. I might just still grab a 121 for travel again. They're built like tanks. (I disagree they don't feel good. Different - but I trouped around the planet with one for a good 6 years and it lasted tonnes better than most other gear!)

So the NEW faderport has a different implementation to the original - and it WON'T become the focus fader outside the current 8 channel boundary - and my interactions with the techs indicated that they had no intention of bringing back that behaviour. Beats me why not - given once you have 100+ tracks, it takes a massive amount of time to control the fader you want. I sent mine back....

The artist mix works amazingly well - eucon is just fantastic. With a little BOME magic, there's an absolute tonne of things you can do (including using faders in a non-motorized way for midi CC). Some faders can be tied to groups, and others can follow as an attention fader or be part of a set that banks around. Best of all worlds.

I must admit that yamaha currently only have the (still awesome) nuage. These are incredible, but a few little points make me nervous about recommending them to anyone (including a mix engineer at my studios who is about to start on another tv series mix... the nuage was definitely an option.) And they're a big investment. And certainly massively overboard for a single fader solution.

I'd be mightily surprised NOT to see some sort of yamaha control surface in the near future aimed at composers / hobbiests / smaller post facilities. Given the cubase market share, even tying it to cubendo would still allow it to have a fairly large market. But really, I have no idea what yamaha want out of Steinberg / Barco / other audio companies under their banner.
 
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pmountford

pmountford

Active Member
As far as I know the CC121 isn't discontinued...
I was repeating what I was told earlier this week by PMT Online sales agent and yet it is still on the Steinberg site as a current product.

The Artist Mix sounds great. Here's hoping the same functionality will be available in the S1.
 

colony nofi

Senior Member
The Artist Mix sounds great. Here's hoping the same functionality will be available in the S1.
It really is a great piece of kit once you get your head around it.
(I find it VERY different using it as a 8 fader module compared to 4 audio faders and 4 cc faders. In 8 fader mode, I tend to keep a single fader as an attention fader, and the rest as bankable. In 4+4 mode, I use the 4 midi CC's on the left, then the next 3 faders locked to 3 groups, and the final again my attention fader.)

Anyway.

Since the S1 is Eucon, you can bet you'll be able to do just as much with it as the mix. Eucon is an awesome protocol. I wish Euphonix were able to live outside of avid, but c'est la vie.

Re CC121 - I'll do some sniffing. If its *not* discontinued, I'm imagining that the sales agent just assumes it must be since its been around for so long ;)
 

greggybud

Member
I know this subject has been raised so many times but wondered as time goes on what solutions exist for Cubase and a hardware fader that autobanks? I know the MCU protocol has been discussed and as I understand limits the banking within Cubase. So is this the extent of the current state of play?
There is a solution to make Cubase auto bank, meaning (assuming your Controller is showing channels 1-8) and in Cubase, for example you focus channel 15. It actually gets the focus on your controller, but it doesn't manually auto-bank. The solution also makes some other things more streamlined and easier.


But....that is way too much for me!

If the guy could somehow package and market this procedure, I think he could make some money. But of course we are still stuck with very limited MCU characters.

I'm told by some current version Logic users that auto-bank works with Mackie Control Protocol. Anyone with a current version and a MCU controller want to verify? Or feel free to do a search in Gearsluz where this issue has been discussed...many times.

Its MCU protocol and my guess as to why DAW developers don't modify the behavior after protocol is that DAW controllers are still a relatively small market, and the development time to accompnay MCU outweighs the benefits. The majority DAW users get giddy over all kinds of new features that attract new customers. Steinbergs Houston was a lesson for them to focus on what they do best.
 

greggybud

Member
The problem with many of less expensive units using the MCU protocol is that they lack the row of buttons that directly change the mixer configurations(views)...which is what allows me to consistently set mine up to carve up the mixer however one's mind wants to do so.
I may be misunderstanding you but with a controller like a Mackie, QconPro, and I would assume X-touch, its very easy to use the assignable function buttons (8 plus shift for 16 functions), and assign those buttons to the Cubase mixer configurations. Personally I use the mix configurations in Metagrid, and the 8 function buttons on the DAW controller for Workspaces.
 
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pmountford

pmountford

Active Member
I can't believe I've just bought a 12 year old device - an Alphatrack - connected it up to Windows 10 Cubase 10 and it's all working. And it's following tracks in Cubase like a new-born lamb...
 

JamieLang

Active Member
I still use their Tranzport to wirelessly control my tracking DAW as I move around the studio. They were making solutions that I think people didn’t even understand the benefits of...
 
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