Cubase and Artist Mix - anyone using one?
- Thread starter SomeGuy
- Start date
iMovieShout
(aka jpb007.uk) I have a dream 🎬
Not sure if this is of interest. I have an Artist Mix for sale following a studio upgrade. I had 3 of these originally. I decided to keep one, have sold one and have one for sale. The one for sale is in pristine condition as it wasn't used much. I've just reduced it down from £599 to £550 on eBay.
Works well with Nuendo10 and Pro Tools 2019, and probably Cubase 10 (as there isn't much difference with Nuendo).
Works well with Nuendo10 and Pro Tools 2019, and probably Cubase 10 (as there isn't much difference with Nuendo).
Guy Rowland
Senior Member
Ah yes, the subject I get PM'd about more than any other. And as I replied to yours (without a reply yet as far as I can see):
--
The basics are that even to this day (as far as I know), the Avid Artist (and soon to be S1) and Cubase are the only combination where you can a) automate midi CCs with touch faders that follow existing data and can drop in on the fly; b) bank to follow your work in the DAW and c) have clear labelling on the interface itself, so you can see where you are.
Let me know what else you want to know!
--
The basics are that even to this day (as far as I know), the Avid Artist (and soon to be S1) and Cubase are the only combination where you can a) automate midi CCs with touch faders that follow existing data and can drop in on the fly; b) bank to follow your work in the DAW and c) have clear labelling on the interface itself, so you can see where you are.
Let me know what else you want to know!
Guy Rowland
Senior Member
Figured this might be a useful repositry to my stock answers to this:
The basic principle is you can assign any midi CC (or direct plugin parameter) to any Quick Control, so you just set them up exactly how you need. Critically, the compromise you have to make is resign yourself to working in the project window not key editor for CC work, I can't satisfactorally combine CCs from two sources (the Artist and the modwheel say) in the Key Editor.
In terms of one-off setup, in Cubase just add the controller as a remote device, and set up the CC Automation page like so:
GLOBAL RECORD DESTINATION ON CONFLICT - Automation Track
GLOBAL AUTOMATION MERGE MODE - Replace 2 - Last Value
In day to day use, make sure the automation is set to write, assign your Quick Controls how you want them (you can copy / paste / save / load / drag / drop and have it all set up in the template) and in Artist just press and hold EQ to enter the Quick Controls mode. Then (shift) flip followed by channel to line up all 8 controls for a track in a row. As with anything, all that is 2nd nature after a while and you don't even think about it - I had to just do it now to remember what the actual buttons are cos I just do it without thinking in use.
The basic principle is you can assign any midi CC (or direct plugin parameter) to any Quick Control, so you just set them up exactly how you need. Critically, the compromise you have to make is resign yourself to working in the project window not key editor for CC work, I can't satisfactorally combine CCs from two sources (the Artist and the modwheel say) in the Key Editor.
In terms of one-off setup, in Cubase just add the controller as a remote device, and set up the CC Automation page like so:
GLOBAL RECORD DESTINATION ON CONFLICT - Automation Track
GLOBAL AUTOMATION MERGE MODE - Replace 2 - Last Value
In day to day use, make sure the automation is set to write, assign your Quick Controls how you want them (you can copy / paste / save / load / drag / drop and have it all set up in the template) and in Artist just press and hold EQ to enter the Quick Controls mode. Then (shift) flip followed by channel to line up all 8 controls for a track in a row. As with anything, all that is 2nd nature after a while and you don't even think about it - I had to just do it now to remember what the actual buttons are cos I just do it without thinking in use.
resonate
Active Member
Thank you Guy for a concise writeup. Now, it would be great if we could get Steinberg focused on a QC Track Disable/Enable bug - that does not retain the qc controls when reloading a project. I wrote about it at the forum - https://www.steinberg.net/forums/vi...2&p=885265&hilit=Quick+controls+issue#p885265 Any Idea how to achieve this?
Guy Rowland
Senior Member
I really do need to take a bit of time to go through this, resonate, I've had a couple of other similar but related issues, bundle them all up and try and prod them via the beta team.
OP
OP
SomeGuy
Senior Member
Checked my PM's and I dont have one from you (nor do I remember PM'ing you directly) so you must have confused me with someone else. Though I do REALLY appreciate your post, as I was not even thinking of using it for midi CC!! Thats a great idea!!
I do have some follow up questions as your post has inspired me to look at the artist mix again (lack of replies here and complaints on the steinberg forums had me write it off)
1. The Artist mix will bank to your selected track? So for example if I have a vocal on audio track one, and my bass guitar is on audio track 55, if I select the bass guitar audio track in Cubase, the artist mix will automatically bank to that selected track?
2. If so, do all faders bank or can I make it so faders 1-7 are hard wired to specific tracks, but fader 8 banks to the selected track?
3. Does banking work in the mixer / busses as well? For example I select Bus 1 in my mixer, does the Artist mix bank to Bus 1 as well?
4. For midi CC mode, does it bank as well? So if I select my strings midi track in the arrange page, the Artist mix will bank to that track (assuming I'm in the midi CC mode you described).
5. What happens when you change your track visibility settings? I will often switch to "only show tracks with data between locators" or even make it so only my string tracks are shown, etc. Does the artist mix adapt, or does it freak out?
6. How does it handle plugin automation? In particular trying to replicate the workflow of a recording console (EQ automation, Compressor automation, etc without having to open the plugins). Do you have to manually setup each plugin, or does it read whats on the inserts and you scroll through the parameters? probably need to try to find some youtube videos on the workflow.
7. In your work flow, do you find that its indispensable, or something that is just nice to have? If indispensable, can you elaboriate on why?
Thanks!!
Guy Rowland
Senior Member
Oops, sorry if I conflated two people SomeGuy... that's awfully rude of me.
1. Yes - it just follows you as you move around the DAW.
2. You can lock specific channels in the EuControl app.
3. Not sure I quite follow (probably a terminology issue between different DAWs) - it will follow any channel be it midi, audio, group etc if that's what you're asking.
4. Yes
5. That's been an issue - it's not been doing this right, but I know they've been looking at it afresh quite recently. I only just updated to the latest version of EuControl, must check that myself.
6. I'll confess I've never found this particularly useful, it always seems less clumsy to use a mouse for this. There are ways of doing it, but I've never explored it fully for this reason.
7. Pretty indispensable for mixing. To me its all about faders with meaningful labels so you know exactly where you are at all times, nothing else matters very much. It's so quick in Pro Tools to throw 2 or 3 tracks together you want to balance and they're right there. For midi CCs its a little more of a luxury, but still a very useful one. If you're programmed a CC part across 16 bars, say, but just want to redo a bit in the middle, it is great to be able to drop in purely by touching the fader. Having a dumb fader that can't pick up the current automation data is a PITA.
1. Yes - it just follows you as you move around the DAW.
2. You can lock specific channels in the EuControl app.
3. Not sure I quite follow (probably a terminology issue between different DAWs) - it will follow any channel be it midi, audio, group etc if that's what you're asking.
4. Yes
5. That's been an issue - it's not been doing this right, but I know they've been looking at it afresh quite recently. I only just updated to the latest version of EuControl, must check that myself.
6. I'll confess I've never found this particularly useful, it always seems less clumsy to use a mouse for this. There are ways of doing it, but I've never explored it fully for this reason.
7. Pretty indispensable for mixing. To me its all about faders with meaningful labels so you know exactly where you are at all times, nothing else matters very much. It's so quick in Pro Tools to throw 2 or 3 tracks together you want to balance and they're right there. For midi CCs its a little more of a luxury, but still a very useful one. If you're programmed a CC part across 16 bars, say, but just want to redo a bit in the middle, it is great to be able to drop in purely by touching the fader. Having a dumb fader that can't pick up the current automation data is a PITA.
OP
OP
SomeGuy
Senior Member
Hey Guy, Thank you so much for answering my questions. And no problem about confusing me with someone else, I get it all the time. People often mistake me for Brad Pitt. 
Your answers inspired a few more if you dont mind.
For #3, I worded it poorly. I was really asking if the artist mix banks with Group tracks and FX tracks if you select them in the mixer or only in the arrange page? This brings up another question, which selection takes priority, mixer or arrange? Or do they have to be linked via the Cubase preference for the mixer to follow arrange page selections, etc.
When you say “It's so quick in Pro Tools to throw 2 or 3 tracks together you want to balance and they're right there.” What exactly do you mean? How are you “throwing” tracks? In your DAW or on the artist mix itself? For example, lets say I wanted to automate vocals (audio track 1), lead guitar (audio track 19), and drums (drum bus 10) so the vocals fade out on a long note and the lead guitar and drums fade up to take over the mix. Can I somehow tell the artist mix that I want to automate these three tracks (even though they are not next to each other in the project) or do I have to move them from their nicely organized places in my arrangement so they are next to each other at the top of the arrange page?
Also your midi CC example brought up a question. I’m not too familiar with Cubase yet, but in Logic there was a way to move midi CC data from being midi region data to track automation data, and vice versa. So if you recorded a midi part and also recorded midi CC with it, by default it would only be editable in the key editor as midi CC. But like you said previously, the artist mix can only automate CC’s in the arrange page and not the key editor. I’m assuming Cubase has a way of dealing with this? Or do you have to only use the artist mix to record CC data and you cannot switch, like if you recorded mod wheel with your keyboard for example and now want to redo part of that midi CC. Hope that makes sense.
Thanks again for sharing your experience with the artist mix! REALLY helpful!!
Your answers inspired a few more if you dont mind.
For #3, I worded it poorly. I was really asking if the artist mix banks with Group tracks and FX tracks if you select them in the mixer or only in the arrange page? This brings up another question, which selection takes priority, mixer or arrange? Or do they have to be linked via the Cubase preference for the mixer to follow arrange page selections, etc.
When you say “It's so quick in Pro Tools to throw 2 or 3 tracks together you want to balance and they're right there.” What exactly do you mean? How are you “throwing” tracks? In your DAW or on the artist mix itself? For example, lets say I wanted to automate vocals (audio track 1), lead guitar (audio track 19), and drums (drum bus 10) so the vocals fade out on a long note and the lead guitar and drums fade up to take over the mix. Can I somehow tell the artist mix that I want to automate these three tracks (even though they are not next to each other in the project) or do I have to move them from their nicely organized places in my arrangement so they are next to each other at the top of the arrange page?
Also your midi CC example brought up a question. I’m not too familiar with Cubase yet, but in Logic there was a way to move midi CC data from being midi region data to track automation data, and vice versa. So if you recorded a midi part and also recorded midi CC with it, by default it would only be editable in the key editor as midi CC. But like you said previously, the artist mix can only automate CC’s in the arrange page and not the key editor. I’m assuming Cubase has a way of dealing with this? Or do you have to only use the artist mix to record CC data and you cannot switch, like if you recorded mod wheel with your keyboard for example and now want to redo part of that midi CC. Hope that makes sense.
Thanks again for sharing your experience with the artist mix! REALLY helpful!!
Guy Rowland
Senior Member
SomeGuy -Within Cubase I have the mixer and Project views linked, so what I bank with one automatically banks in the other, and the Mix follows. This works on any track type at all. If I unlink the two windows in Preferences, the Mix follows the Mix Console, not the Project windows (this way of working would be very confusing to me). It can follow you across the three Mix Console windows.
I've found far and away the quickest way to work in Pro Tools is to move the tracks I want to work with together (this is for audio post work, not music mixing). My projects there are pretty big and I usually want to balance music to voice or something, so once my project is taking shape I tend to cluster these tracks close together which is a win-win - visually I can see what's going on and they're all under my fingers. The only thing to watch is that if I move a highlighted track in PT (or I think Cubase) the Mix doesn't pick up the change automatically, I need to click away to another track and back again before it updates the surface. Then if I need to rearrange (in PT) I just drag the channels back again.
For whatever reason, I don't do this so much in Cubase. I'm far more rigid in where I want to see things there visually... you'd have to ask my psychiatrist why this is, I've no idea, because there's no real issue in working the same way and just drag the tracks at will when required While the surface doesn't only show tracks in the visibilty agent window, as long as I'm selecting the tracks in the DAW not the surface (which is the way I always work), the Mix still follows me. Somehow I muddle through!
I've found mixing midi CC data in the Key editor with Automation Lanes very clumsy and time-sapping, so I've just made the blanket decision to only work in automation lanes for the tracks that I ever want to automate. Stuff like sustain pedals I tend to keep in the key editor, everything else is in the project window. There might well be better methods of copying between the two than I've ever found, but I'm a simple soul and keep to what I know reliably works!
BTW - I'm seriously toying with moving to an Avid S1 when they come available. After many years of very active service, my Mix is starting to get just a little flaky here and there. Occasionally the 1st channel stops responding, and I need to power cycle.... I just have a feeling its on a slow downward curve. The S1 / Fire 10 HD combo looks very slick, weirdly the nicest enhancement I think will having track colours visible on the surface itself.
I've found far and away the quickest way to work in Pro Tools is to move the tracks I want to work with together (this is for audio post work, not music mixing). My projects there are pretty big and I usually want to balance music to voice or something, so once my project is taking shape I tend to cluster these tracks close together which is a win-win - visually I can see what's going on and they're all under my fingers. The only thing to watch is that if I move a highlighted track in PT (or I think Cubase) the Mix doesn't pick up the change automatically, I need to click away to another track and back again before it updates the surface. Then if I need to rearrange (in PT) I just drag the channels back again.
For whatever reason, I don't do this so much in Cubase. I'm far more rigid in where I want to see things there visually... you'd have to ask my psychiatrist why this is, I've no idea, because there's no real issue in working the same way and just drag the tracks at will when required While the surface doesn't only show tracks in the visibilty agent window, as long as I'm selecting the tracks in the DAW not the surface (which is the way I always work), the Mix still follows me. Somehow I muddle through!
I've found mixing midi CC data in the Key editor with Automation Lanes very clumsy and time-sapping, so I've just made the blanket decision to only work in automation lanes for the tracks that I ever want to automate. Stuff like sustain pedals I tend to keep in the key editor, everything else is in the project window. There might well be better methods of copying between the two than I've ever found, but I'm a simple soul and keep to what I know reliably works!
BTW - I'm seriously toying with moving to an Avid S1 when they come available. After many years of very active service, my Mix is starting to get just a little flaky here and there. Occasionally the 1st channel stops responding, and I need to power cycle.... I just have a feeling its on a slow downward curve. The S1 / Fire 10 HD combo looks very slick, weirdly the nicest enhancement I think will having track colours visible on the surface itself.
