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Cubase 8.5 VEP 6 and your routing pref?

Nexus52085

New Member
Hey guys. I'm messing around with my template, and I want to know what you guys do! I'm using cubase 8.5 and VEP 6, but I believe I have been routing my instruments inefficiently. Back when I was using Pro Tools for everything (I know, I know), You could route all of the midi channels in the sequencer to separate midi ports in VEP. For example, horn 1 could be routed as midi channel 1 for VE pro's port 1; horn 2, channel 2, port 1, etc. Then trumpet 1 could be on a different port: tpt 1, midi channel 1, port 2; tpt 2, midi channel 2, port 2. All this would be routed to the same instrument track.

In Cubase you have to add a step, I believe (if I remember correctly, you don't have to do this in Pro Tools). In addition to adding VEP 64-bit, you must then add a VEP Event Input to route midi to each port in the same VEP instance.

My questions to you guys are these, do you route it like I explained, or do you just have 30 instances of VEP without using the event input? Also, how do you guys like to organize your choirs of instruments? Do you like to organize each section by themselves and group the different libraries with their respective sections, or do you separate both the sections AND the libraries?

Looking forward to the replies!
 

oivind_rosvold

Øivind Rosvold
I think i do it the same way you described.

I route each VEpro instance to a instrument track. So:
Woodwinds instance go to 1 instrument track
Brass instance to 1 instrument track
Percussion + tuned percs to 1 instrument track
Strings to 1 instrument track
Misc to 1 instrument track

I am still setting up my new templates so it's not final, might get a choir + synths instance and instrument track there, as of now they are in the misc, which i use for a per-project thing. I switch out stuff in misc on most tracks.

This gives me just 5 instrument tracks in Cubase. And then in each instance, i have a Kontakt (usually) channel for each instrument.

So in the Brass instance i have, lest say
1 Kontakt instance for Spitfire SB Horn (legato, sustain, stacc etc)
1 Kontakt instance for Spitfire SB Horns a2 (legato, sustain, stacc etc)
1 Kontakt instance for Spitfire SB Horn a6 (legato, sustain, stacc etc)
1 Kontakt instance for Spitfire SB Trumpet (legato, sustain, stacc etc)
1 Kontakt instance for Spitfire SB Trumpets a2 (legato, sustain, stacc etc)
1 Kontakt instance for Spitfire SB Trumpets a6 (legato, sustain, stacc etc)
etc

these all get routed in Cubase like this:

Horn
Instrument track = Vienna Ensemble Pro /// (connected to the VEpro 6 Brass instance)
Output routing = VEpro6 Brass MIDI In 1
Midi channel 1 = legato
Midi channel 2 = sustain
Midi channel 3 = stacc
etc

Horns a2
Instrument track = Vienna Ensemble Pro /// (connected to the VEpro 6 Brass instance)
Output routing = VEpro6 Brass MIDI In 2
Midi channel 1 = legato
Midi channel 2 = sustain
Midi channel 3 = stacc
etc
 
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Nexus52085

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I think i do it the same way you described.

I route each VEpro instance to a instrument track. So:
Woodwinds instance go to 1 instrument track
Brass instance to 1 instrument track
Percussion + tuned percs to 1 instrument track
Strings to 1 instrument track
Misc to 1 instrument track

I am still setting up my new templates so it's not final, might get a choir + synths instance and instrument track there, as of now they are in the misc, which i use for a per-project thing. I switch out stuff in misc on most tracks.

This gives me just 5 instrument tracks in Cubase. And then in each instance, i have a Kontakt (usually) channel for each instrument.

So in the Brass instance i have, lest say
1 Kontakt instance for Spitfire SB Horn (legato, sustain, stacc etc)
1 Kontakt instance for Spitfire SB Horns a2 (legato, sustain, stacc etc)
1 Kontakt instance for Spitfire SB Horn a6 (legato, sustain, stacc etc)
1 Kontakt instance for Spitfire SB Trumpet (legato, sustain, stacc etc)
1 Kontakt instance for Spitfire SB Trumpets a2 (legato, sustain, stacc etc)
1 Kontakt instance for Spitfire SB Trumpets a6 (legato, sustain, stacc etc)
etc

these all get routed in Cubase like this:

Horn
Instrument track = Vienna Ensemble Pro /// (connected to the VEpro 6 Brass instance)
Output routing = VEpro6 Brass MIDI In 1
Midi channel 1 = legato
Midi channel 2 = sustain
Midi channel 3 = stacc
etc

Horns a2
Instrument track = Vienna Ensemble Pro /// (connected to the VEpro 6 Brass instance)
Output routing = VEpro6 Brass MIDI In 2
Midi channel 1 = legato
Midi channel 2 = sustain
Midi channel 3 = stacc
etc
Sweet! I was hoping someone else would confirm. What kind of rig do you have? That's a ton patches
 

Jdiggity1

Senior Member
Moderator
You do not need to use the Event Input plugin. Just make sure you use the VST3 version of the Vienna Ensemble Pro plugin (indicated by three grey slashes in the plugin selector).
VEP supports up to 48 'ports' to be routed into your DAW from the one instance. If you think of one port allowing up to 16 MIDI channels, then right there you have a possible 768 patches from ONE instance of VEP.

Personally, my VEP instances are loaded into the instrument rack (not instrument tracks).
Then i assign MIDI channels to those rack instruments.
 
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Nexus52085

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You do not need to use the Event Input plugin. Just make sure you use the VST3 version of the Vienna Ensemble Pro plugin (indicated by three grey slashes in the plugin selector).
VEP supports up to 48 'ports' to be routed into your DAW from the one instance. If you think of one port allowing up to 16 MIDI channels, then right there you have a possible 768 patches from ONE instance of VEP.

Personally, my VEP instances are loaded into the instrument rack (not instrument tracks).
Then i assign MIDI channels to those rack instruments.
Thanks for the reply. I'd like to use the VST 3 version, but only the non x64 plugin's have that designation. Am I missing something? I don't want to run a 32-bit plug-in.
 

Jdiggity1

Senior Member
Moderator
yes. you are missing something.

Well actually, it's a little confusing. The plugin should show up as "Vienna Ensemble Pro ///"
There is no mention of 'x64' in this one, but rest assured, it is 64-bit.
 
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Nexus52085

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yes. you are missing something.

Well actually, it's a little confusing. The plugin should show up as "Vienna Ensemble Pro ///"
There is no mention of 'x64' in this one, but rest assured, it is 64-bit.
Whew!!! I was losing my mind for about an hour now. I was checking the file paths and everything, and all of the VE Pro 64-bit.VST3 files are where they should be: Progrom Files>Common Files>VST3.
 

oivind_rosvold

Øivind Rosvold
Sweet! I was hoping someone else would confirm. What kind of rig do you have? That's a ton patches


Running a somewhat old single Xeon E5-2620 cpu on a Supermicro X9DRL-iF mainboard with 64GB DDR3 RAM. Not using 100% of the memory tho, but once i have everything in the template, it's probably gonna be close :) But i can upgrade to 512GB if i want/need XD
 
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Nexus52085

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Running a somewhat old single Xeon E5-2620 cpu on a Supermicro X9DRL-iF mainboard with 64GB DDR3 RAM. Not using 100% of the memory tho, but once i have everything in the template, it's probably gonna be close :) But i can upgrade to 512GB if i want/need XD
512? hmmmm If you're only running on one computer, there's no way, especially if your mobo is limited to DDR3 ram. I believe the highest capacity modules are 8GB for DDR3 - meaning that you would need 64 slots. Even if you could upgrade to DDR4, you'd still need 32 slots. Do you have a slave computer?
 
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oivind_rosvold

Øivind Rosvold
512? hmmmm If you're only running on one computer, there's no way, especially if your mobo is limited to DDR3 ram. I believe the highest capacity modules are 8GB for DDR3 - meaning that you would need 64 slots. Even if you could upgrade to DDR4, you'd still need 32 slots. Do you have a slave computer?

Here is a link to the mainboard: http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/xeon/c600/x9drl-if.cfm
16gb RAM sticks have been very common for many years and are quite cheap. 32gb modules are actually cheapish as well now i think. But 64gb modules are still expensive, prolly cheaper to get another computer at that point ^^

Edit: actually, seems for the amount of RAM you get, 64gb modules aren't that pricey.
 
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Nexus52085

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oivind_rosvold

Øivind Rosvold
Yarr, more or less. The motherboard is regular ATX size so it fits in regular cases, and the memory module slots are regular slots and work with regular modules. Just need ecc and rd/lrd to get over the 64gb capacity, which I believe now is 128gb on many newer regular desktop motherboards with ddr4.
 

oivind_rosvold

Øivind Rosvold
Edit: the spaces between the lines did not work as i thought when i posted, so hopefully it will still make sense ^^

Edit2: see attachment of what i mean, but it might not be obvious lol, not that good at explaining :D

Edit3: Even tho VST3 support enables these features in the plug-in does not mean that the DAW has the option, even if the DAW has VST3 support. The DAW also needs midi ports + channels support for it to work, and as far as i know, not every VST3 enabled DAW has this. I believe Sonar did not have it when they got VST3 support, but don't quote me on that.


As far as i know, VST3 support midi inputs/ports + channels, whereas VST2 supports just midi channels.

So it is much easier to set up and control with VST3 as you only need 1 instrument track for each instance of VEpro (containing multiple instances of kontakt/play), wheras for VST2 you need 1 instrument track for each instance of kontakt/play in VEpro.
 

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BNRSound

Member
So is there a benefit to having instruments spread out on more midi ports as opposed to just channels? Or is it mostly a organizational thing? I use cubase 8.5 FWIW.
 

oivind_rosvold

Øivind Rosvold
With vst2 you need a VEpro plugin for each kontakt/play instance in VEpro.

With vst3 you need only a VEpro plugin for each instance of VEpro.

If there are resource benefits, I do not know, but I would guess so, as depending on your template, you are using 1-5 VEpro plugins with vst3 instead of 1 for each instrument in you template, which for me is already over 50. Loading 5 instrument tracks instead of 50 is in my book better and takes less time to set up and maintain. When you add a new kontakt/play to VEpro, you only need to add another midi channel to Cubase, instead of yet another instrument track.
 
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