Cubase 10 Sends Question in regards to reverb?

BigAL

New Member
Hi All,

Hope everyone is having a fantastic day or night in which ever timezone you are in! I'll get right to it.

I have a question about sends. I have been working on my template, in the past I have generally used Reverb as an Insert on an instrument channel or sometimes a bus that a section was routed to for an example, a strings or brass bus. I remember at some point when I was on Ableton I did use sends, I digressed. I know Daniel James and probably others also use Reverb as an Insert on his section buses which is a method I may prefer but what are all of you doing?

After some study of how others use Reverb on a Send as opposed to an Insert claiming that it is more realistic, I am a bit confused on how to best set up the routing, say one has all the sections of Strings going to a String Group or Bus Track, then that Group or Bus is going to either a Mix Bus or Master Bus, after sending lets say the First Violins to a Reverb Send where should that Send be routed?(This could also be applied to say the String Group or Bus if one was sending that to the Reverb Send rather then the individual sections that make up a full section.) From what I gather it should be independent? If it should be independent would you then route that Send to Mix Bus or Master Bus and not to the String Group or Bus Track if that makes any sense?

I'm looking forward to hearing back from the VI Controllers on this!

Cheers and Huge Thanks,
BigAL
 
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BigAL

New Member
Hey All,

Does anyone have any idea on this? It would be highly appreciated!

Cheers and Huge Thanks again,
BigAL
 

Illico

Samuel Le Tonquèze
If you want to add reverb to the group bus signal, use insert. If you want to add reverb to an EQ processed bus signal use send bus (EQ + Reverb).
 

ChazC

Active Member
I don't think I've ever used a reverb on anything other than a dedicated send.

Delays/echoes get used here as inserts instead of sends now and again but I like to keep all my reverbs on dedicated FX sends - makes it a lot easier to route whatever you want to the same identical 'space'.

You could put an identical reverb on each bus as an insert but then if you want to change the reverb & keep everything identical you'll have a lot more work to do (unless your DAW has control linking or something similar).

If you use one reverb on a dedicated send you just need to watch your frequency build up depending on the actual reverb plugin you use, some handle wide frequency ranges a lot better than others.
 

sekkosiki

Senior Member
When I'm using reverb sends, I'm usually routing those FX channels to a WET group channel. Then I have all dry instrument groups routed to DRY group channel. Those two are finally routed to MIX group. Thus I can easily change the total amount of reverb using the WET group.
 
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BigAL

New Member
If you want to add reverb to the group bus signal, use insert. If you want to add reverb to an EQ processed bus signal use send bus (EQ + Reverb).
Hey Samuel,

Thanks for the reply, from what you said I gather that the Signal Flow of using Sends work in conjunction together which is something I was kind of aware of meaning that if one was to have an EQ on a Send before let's say a Reverb, one is actually EQing the way the Reverb is going to react before the Signal enters the Reverb. A similar process would be say something like New York style compression which can be EQing the Signal so that the Compressor only effects the frequencies going into the Compressor and then mixing it in parallel. If one one was to set up a Reverb on a Send let's just say without EQ involved so that one could have the same Reverb on multiple instruments that were being routed to it to create and I quote ChazC here an,"Identical 'Space'," where would one send the out of the Send to?
 
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BigAL

New Member
I don't think I've ever used a reverb on anything other than a dedicated send.

Delays/echoes get used here as inserts instead of sends now and again but I like to keep all my reverbs on dedicated FX sends - makes it a lot easier to route whatever you want to the same identical 'space'.

You could put an identical reverb on each bus as an insert but then if you want to change the reverb & keep everything identical you'll have a lot more work to do (unless your DAW has control linking or something similar).

If you use one reverb on a dedicated send you just need to watch your frequency build up depending on the actual reverb plugin you use, some handle wide frequency ranges a lot better than others.
Hey ChazC,

Also big thanks for the reply, your insight was helpful for sure and kind of what I was thinking from some of the research I have been doing, especially when it comes to putting instruments in an, "Identical space," that's one of the things I was wondering about but also when using Sends for this purpose where would one send the Output of that Sent to? In your setup where do you usually send it to? Sekkosiki's set up is something I haven't thought of, do you do something similar or the same?
 
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BigAL

New Member
When I'm using reverb sends, I'm usually routing those FX channels to a WET group channel. Then I have all dry instrument groups routed to DRY group channel. Those two are finally routed to MIX group. Thus I can easily change the total amount of reverb using the WET group.
Hey Sekkosiki,

Thanks for the reply, I found your response very interesting. So I guess my question here would be in your set up where do you usually route your MIX group that the WET and DRY groups were routed to? Do you just route that into the Master Bus or maybe you have a Mix Bus set up that then gets routed into a Master Bus or the final Stereo Out?
 

sekkosiki

Senior Member
Hey Sekkosiki,

Thanks for the reply, I found your response very interesting. So I guess my question here would be in your set up where do you usually route your MIX group that the WET and DRY groups were routed to? Do you just route that into the Master Bus or maybe you have a Mix Bus set up that then gets routed into a Master Bus or the final Stereo Out?
You're welcome. I route my MIX group to a Master Bus, which routes to the final Stereo Out.
 
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BigAL

New Member
You're welcome. I route my MIX group to a Master Bus, which routes to the final Stereo Out.
Awesome, I may try setting up Sends in a similar way. I also have a Master Bus set up in the same way routing to the final Stereo Out in my template.

Thanks,
BigAL
 

Hywel

Never knowingly underscored...
I have learnt a lot from studying the Cubase version of Spitfire Audio's BBCSO Cubase template with regard to reverb sends and other routing issues. It is available via a link from their BBCSO website


You may be able to utilize this as part of your workflow...
 

ChazC

Active Member
Hey ChazC,

Also big thanks for the reply, your insight was helpful for sure and kind of what I was thinking from some of the research I have been doing, especially when it comes to putting instruments in an, "Identical space," that's one of the things I was wondering about but also when using Sends for this purpose where would one send the Output of that Sent to? In your setup where do you usually send it to? Sekkosiki's set up is something I haven't thought of, do you do something similar or the same?
You’re more than welcome! All my FX channels get routed to an effects bus which in turn goes to my Mix Bus then to the Stereo Out

I have all my FX channels as solo safe so not only does the FX bus allow me to add any overall processing/EQ it also gives me a very easy way to mute/mix all the effects in one go which can result in some quite creative mixing possibilities.

My only real beef with Cubase/Nuendo is the inability to route sends back into themselves. In Pro Tools when doing delay throws, instead of using feedback/repeat controls on the plug I used to add a send going back into the same channel which again allows some creative licence and mixing possibilities with other plugins on the delay channel as well as giving you easy control over the repeat levels without having to automate a plugin control. It’s about the only thing I miss from PT really.
 
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BigAL

New Member
I have learnt a lot from studying the Cubase version of Spitfire Audio's BBCSO Cubase template with regard to reverb sends and other routing issues. It is available via a link from their BBCSO website


You may be able to utilize this as part of your workflow...
Thanks for posting the link to this video, I checked it out, it was informative for sure I think it was one too many tiers or levels when it came to the "Printing Stage and Monitoring Stage," though. My template is more similar too Jason Graves's in regards to tiers.
 
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BigAL

New Member
You’re more than welcome! All my FX channels get routed to an effects bus which in turn goes to my Mix Bus then to the Stereo Out

I have all my FX channels as solo safe so not only does the FX bus allow me to add any overall processing/EQ it also gives me a very easy way to mute/mix all the effects in one go which can result in some quite creative mixing possibilities.

My only real beef with Cubase/Nuendo is the inability to route sends back into themselves. In Pro Tools when doing delay throws, instead of using feedback/repeat controls on the plug I used to add a send going back into the same channel which again allows some creative licence and mixing possibilities with other plugins on the delay channel as well as giving you easy control over the repeat levels without having to automate a plugin control. It’s about the only thing I miss from PT really.
Ahh, I see you have it set up like Sekkosiki I think, I'm going to give this a shot, it will take some getting used too.

Thanks again to everyone!
BigAL
 
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BigAL

New Member
I have learnt a lot from studying the Cubase version of Spitfire Audio's BBCSO Cubase template with regard to reverb sends and other routing issues. It is available via a link from their BBCSO website


You may be able to utilize this as part of your workflow...
Hey Hywel,

I downloaded the Cubase template from The Page and studied it some today, the numbering system in it is so heinous I have no idea how someone could navigate a template like that pleasantly lol. It was still informative and interesting for sure, thanks for that link! I'm not sure I would integrate a set up like that into my template as it seems a little counter productive to me. I feel like there's a possibility it was replicating an analog console to an extent in terms of Signal Flow but I could be wrong as the final tiers seem far from that as well, it's really interesting how a few different engineers developed that template.

Thanks,
BigAL
 
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BigAL

New Member
When I'm using reverb sends, I'm usually routing those FX channels to a WET group channel. Then I have all dry instrument groups routed to DRY group channel. Those two are finally routed to MIX group. Thus I can easily change the total amount of reverb using the WET group.
Hey Sekkosiki,

I was working on my template earlier today, I was making changes in some areas. Then decided to re work my Bus system because of the changes I had made and since I'll be incorporating Sends or FX Channels into the template. After studying the Spitfire Cubase Template, which seems boggling and a bit unnecessary in the way it's setup. Nonetheless I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to set up my Bus Channels and FX Channels in a way I think may work for my template. Could you maybe attach a screenshot or screenshots of how you have lets just say an Instrument Section routed in the mix console? It would be highly appreciated! I'm also going to reach out to ChazC, I think both of you must have similar set ups, I'm curious on both of yours!

Thanks,
BigAL
 
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BigAL

New Member
You’re more than welcome! All my FX channels get routed to an effects bus which in turn goes to my Mix Bus then to the Stereo Out

I have all my FX channels as solo safe so not only does the FX bus allow me to add any overall processing/EQ it also gives me a very easy way to mute/mix all the effects in one go which can result in some quite creative mixing possibilities.

My only real beef with Cubase/Nuendo is the inability to route sends back into themselves. In Pro Tools when doing delay throws, instead of using feedback/repeat controls on the plug I used to add a send going back into the same channel which again allows some creative licence and mixing possibilities with other plugins on the delay channel as well as giving you easy control over the repeat levels without having to automate a plugin control. It’s about the only thing I miss from PT really.
Hey ChazC,

I'm reaching out again because I was wondering if you could possibly attach a screenshot or some screen shots on how you have your Mix Console set up in regards to a Instrument Section, with Bus Channels, FX Channels and what not. I also reached out to Sekkosiki on this mentioning your name since both of you have been contributors on this thread and shared useful knowledge. I also think both of you have similar set ups so naturally I'm interested on seeing how both of yours may differ!

Thanks again,
BigAL
 

ChazC

Active Member
Hey ChazC,

I'm reaching out again because I was wondering if you could possibly attach a screenshot or some screen shots on how you have your Mix Console set up in regards to a Instrument Section, with Bus Channels, FX Channels and what not. I also reached out to Sekkosiki on this mentioning your name since both of you have been contributors on this thread and shared useful knowledge. I also think both of you have similar set ups so naturally I'm interested on seeing how both of yours may differ!

Thanks again,
BigAL
I'll send you a copy of a small template when I'm back in the studio tomorrow so you can get an idea how I work. PM me your email address.
 
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BigAL

New Member
I'll send you a copy of a small template when I'm back in the studio tomorrow so you can get an idea how I work. PM me your email address.
Hey ChazC,

Thanks for getting back to me, on it!

Cheers,
BigAL