CSSS noisy?

GuitarG

Giscard Rasquin
Hey!

Just got CSSS so not very familiar yet.
I’m writing some minimalist piano cues with solo strings from CSSS
Every time a CSSS instrument comes in, there’s quite a lot of noise to a point where it’s annoying me
Am I doing something wrong here or are they noisy?

Thanks!

(With noise I mean hiss from the recording)
 
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N.Caffrey

Senior Member
Yep it is noisy and I was a bit bothered too at the beginning. I think choosing close and room mics can help with it
 

aaronventure

Senior Member
Yes, CSSS and CSS are noisy, especially at lower dynamics. Waves X-Noise and (better yet) RX Spectral De-noise take care of it completely.

RX is quite pricey, X-Noise is $90. I haven't tried it with RX Voice De-noise which is available in the $30 RX Elements suite. but there's a trial available so you can give it a shot and hear the results for yourself.
 
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Zoot_Rollo

Throbbing Member
Interesting.

I am noticing some significant "shhh" residue in several string demos in another thread.

Nature of the beast?

I don't hear this in all libraries, but with the addition of this thread, has me listening even more closely before investing.
 

NathanTiemeyer

Active Member
That's funny, I've experienced this as well! I hear a lot of noise from the pizzicato articulation when I use the full ensemble patch!
 

Sears Poncho

Senior Member
Nature of the beast?
String instruments are noisy as hell up close, it's the actual sound you're hearing. I think the most prominent example is with "Intimate Textures", that's the "noisiest" I own. It's not a criticism, I'm used to the sound being a player. In a big hall, the noise tends to go away. In a small rehearsal room, it would be more noticeable.
 

Zoot_Rollo

Throbbing Member
String instruments are noisy as hell up close, it's the actual sound you're hearing. I think the most prominent example is with "Intimate Textures", that's the "noisiest" I own. It's not a criticism, I'm used to the sound being a player. In a big hall, the noise tends to go away. In a small rehearsal room, it would be more noticeable.
i bought "IT" for just that quality.

the "noise" i mention is more an observation than anything.

i was just hunting down some upright bass libraries, and the incidental noise was something i was looking for.

simply another characteristic to be aware of when shopping.
 

kmaster

Composer | Writer | Breakfast Food Enthusiast
String instruments are noisy as hell up close, it's the actual sound you're hearing. I think the most prominent example is with "Intimate Textures", that's the "noisiest" I own. It's not a criticism, I'm used to the sound being a player. In a big hall, the noise tends to go away. In a small rehearsal room, it would be more noticeable.
it’s not this. If OP is talking about what I think he is, the noise exists in the main and “mix” mics, especially at lower dynamics, but I haven’t yet found it on close mics (which is the opposite of what you’d find on a “real” noise). It’s something to do with the processing of the samples themselves, not something acoustically based. EWQL instruments also often have this problem.
 

kmaster

Composer | Writer | Breakfast Food Enthusiast
Here is a test I made few months back when I was having a similar discussion with a friend. It's CSS, but the problem exists in CSSS also.

CSS Hiss Test

It's the same two notes from the Mix, Tree, and Close mics, respectively. As you'll hear, the first two have a good bit of hiss, and the last one does not (at least not nearly to that same noticeable level).
 

Nils Neumann

Active Member
Just imagine a implement noise reduction feature in Kontakt that is chained before every single sample:rolleyes:
In form of a well scripted knob that goes from noisy and "real" to clean and polished.
 

aaronventure

Senior Member
String instruments are noisy as hell up close, it's the actual sound you're hearing. I think the most prominent example is with "Intimate Textures", that's the "noisiest" I own. It's not a criticism, I'm used to the sound being a player. In a big hall, the noise tends to go away. In a small rehearsal room, it would be more noticeable.
That's all well and good, but OP is talking about spectral noise in the samples of CSSS/CSS, caused by pre-amps/mics because the lowest dynamic layers were recorded very quietly and had to be brought up. Therefore the noise floor isn't a constant across all the dynamic layers.

Just imagine a implement noise reduction feature in Kontakt that is chained before every single sample:rolleyes:
In form of a well scripted knob that goes from noisy and "real" to clean and polished.
Yeah, with no PDC and performance hit :D

The plugins I listed introduce a LOT of delay (10k samples at 48khz) and I don't use them while playing stuff in and/or composing. I only apply them in post-production.
 
OP
GuitarG

GuitarG

Giscard Rasquin
Thanks for the replies guys! Got RX Elements and the voice de-noise plugin works pretty well I must say!
Will have to spend some more time with it to see if I can remove the hiss completely though

True. I notice it especially with the lowest dynamic layers. The cues I’m writing are already very quite so when one of the CSSS instruments start playing there’s an instant buildup of noise.
 

procreative

Senior Member
Surely its to be expected that Close Mics would have the least noise. Stands to reason the further away the Mics the more gain has to be applied as the signal levels will be lower?
 

Sears Poncho

Senior Member
Here is a test I made few months back when I was having a similar discussion with a friend. It's CSS, but the problem exists in CSSS also.

CSS Hiss Test

It's the same two notes from the Mix, Tree, and Close mics, respectively. As you'll hear, the first two have a good bit of hiss, and the last one does not (at least not nearly to that same noticeable level).
Sorry but that's not hiss, it's bow noise. I guarantee it, I have it 5 inches from my ear every day. If there is a certain amount of noise floor involved, it's drowned out by the bow noise. :) Even when it might sound like noise floor it's an aural illusion, it can sound like rumble.

Some of it has to due with how an instrument is set up, which is one reason why this set of samples may have it louder than others. My fiddle is currently "noisy", if I take it to the shop to have the soundpost adjusted, it will be a lot less. Also, the quality of instrument and the room will play a part. As far as loud vs soft- in real life, softer can be noisier. The sul tasto in Intimate Textures is as noisy as it gets. When one plays louder, the actual notes will come out more and hide the bow noise.

Session Strings Pro has a "bow noise control", how accurate it is I have no idea. But if one turns it all the way up, they will hear that same sound.

The 3rd example is noticably softer, one can see that visually. Turn it up and it's still noisy. Again, it can be lots of things- the angle of the mic to the F holes for example.

PS= I'm not trying to be a know-it-all, I'm considering purchasing the product. I'd also like to know of any noise problems, but beyond those that I consider "normal".
 

RiffWraith

Senior Member
Sorry but that's not hiss, it's bow noise.
That is definitely hiss. Yes, there is some normal bow noise in there, but if you really listen, you can here the hiss come in for a split second before the sample starts playing. That hiss continues underneath the sample throughout.

Cheers.
 
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RiffWraith

Senior Member
Stands to reason the further away the Mics the more gain has to be applied as the signal levels will be lower?
Not necessarily. Sometimes, yes, but it really depends on the mic pres, the mics, and their sensitivity.

Noise is a part of the equation. From room tone, to noise from mic pres and other gear that might be used. It's ever present in film scores. Listen to "13th Warrior" from The 13th Warrior by Jerry Goldsmith. About 20 sec in. The same noise is present there that we hear in kmaster's dbox ex. The problem is with the layering of samples - you are increasing the noise every time you add an instrument or section - b/c each patch has it's own noise. So the noise begins to multiply, and multiply.... and this is especially evident with lower dynamics.

Only one proper solution. Write everything in fff!

Cheers.
 
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OP
GuitarG

GuitarG

Giscard Rasquin
Yes it´s definitely a hiss noise, like RiffWraith says, noticeable just before the sample start.
Ok, no more soft piano stuff. From now on everything fff! :dancer::2thumbs:
 

constaneum

Senior Member
yup. noisy indeed. I haven't even use it for months in my template after buying it. Worried it gonna be casted aside to collect dust.
 

kmaster

Composer | Writer | Breakfast Food Enthusiast
Sorry but that's not hiss, it's bow noise. I guarantee it, I have it 5 inches from my ear every day. If there is a certain amount of noise floor involved, it's drowned out by the bow noise. :) Even when it might sound like noise floor it's an aural illusion, it can sound like rumble.

Some of it has to due with how an instrument is set up, which is one reason why this set of samples may have it louder than others. My fiddle is currently "noisy", if I take it to the shop to have the soundpost adjusted, it will be a lot less. Also, the quality of instrument and the room will play a part. As far as loud vs soft- in real life, softer can be noisier. The sul tasto in Intimate Textures is as noisy as it gets. When one plays louder, the actual notes will come out more and hide the bow noise.

Session Strings Pro has a "bow noise control", how accurate it is I have no idea. But if one turns it all the way up, they will hear that same sound.

The 3rd example is noticably softer, one can see that visually. Turn it up and it's still noisy. Again, it can be lots of things- the angle of the mic to the F holes for example.

PS= I'm not trying to be a know-it-all, I'm considering purchasing the product. I'd also like to know of any noise problems, but beyond those that I consider "normal".
Listen with a nice pair of headphones. Once you hear the hiss, you won't not hear the hiss.

...Which is a shame, because it's a totally fantastic library otherwise and I love the ethos of the developer.
 

axb312

Senior Member
Listen with a nice pair of headphones. Once you hear the hiss, you won't not hear the hiss.

...Which is a shame, because it's a totally fantastic library otherwise and I love the ethos of the developer.
I wonder if this point has been brought to Alex's attention. Surprising that no visible action has been taken on it so far.