CSS/ CSB Hanging Notes

Discussion in 'SAMPLE Talk' started by Land of Missing Parts, May 12, 2019.

  1. OP
    Land of Missing Parts

    Land of Missing Parts No Time for Honky-Tonk

    Jan 27, 2013
    You rock Alex. I emailed you with specs. :emoji_sunglasses:
  2. averystemmler

    averystemmler Active Member

    Sep 22, 2017
    Just a wild, uninformed guess: since it seems to be primarily Logic, and those with this issue mentioned several other Kontakt libraries with hung notes, is it possible that it could be something with the AU version of Kontakt? Are those of you with troubles on Kontakt 5 or Kontakt 6?
  3. Simon Ravn

    Simon Ravn Senior Member

    YES of course! Kontakt is just broken, and no-one noticed this before you, right now. Thank you for that insight... Sorry for the sarcasm:)

    And now back to reality. No it's not Kontakt. I don't have this problem with libraries in general. I had it happen with some version of Cinebrass, but I think their 1.7 update fixed it.

    It happens a lot with both CSS and CSB. Only legato/marcato (which are also legato) patches I believe, as others pointed out. Also seems to be triggered by rewinding/forwarding if I recall - it's been a while since I sat down with either library.

    But I will write Alex with my findings, and if others do as well, hopefully he will be able to come up with a fix.
  4. averystemmler

    averystemmler Active Member

    Sep 22, 2017
    Easy there cowboy. Troubleshooting is a process of finding the common denominator. With difficult-to-reproduce bugs dispersed across a broad userbase, every variable helps. If, for instance, everyone with hung notes is on version 5.8, using the Audio Units version, and everyone without is on version 6 or using a VST, that is useful information. I never said Kontakt is "just broken."

    Not that it matters much to me. My notes are stopping when I want them to. ;)
    clisma likes this.
  5. clisma

    clisma Active Member

    Apr 13, 2015
    Fantastic of @Alex W to chime in and help troubleshoot. So here are my specs to get things rolling, many eyes being better than two for comparisons:

    MacPro 2009 (flashed to 5,1), 3.06Ghz, 56GB, Sierra 10.12.6, RME UFX+, Roland FA-08 Master Keys, Audiosport 4x4 MIDI interface, Evolution UC-33e fader box, ilok2 and ancient Steinberg key, Logic 10.4.4, Kontakt 5.8.1.
    Land of Missing Parts likes this.
  6. Simon Ravn

    Simon Ravn Senior Member

    It is on all versions of kontakt. 5.5 and beyond. People who have this problem knows its been there since the release of CSS.
    Carson likes this.
  7. ReelToLogic

    ReelToLogic Still have my reel-to-reel

    Jun 24, 2018
    Thanks, Alex! Just PM'd you my info.
  8. constaneum

    constaneum Senior Member

    I dont have any problem with CSS, CSSS or CSB but here's my setup. Hope it'll help in some way.

    1) OS : Windows 10 Professional 64 bit
    2) Audio Interface: Alesis IO|2 Express USB Audio interface
    3) Digital audio workstation software: FL Studio 20 64 bit.
    4) Kontakt: Last release for Kontakt 5.
    5) PC Spec:
    • CPU: Intel Core i7-7700
    • RAM: 32 GB
    • Motherboard: ASUS B250 Prime
    • Power Supply: Superflower 550W Gold
    • Hardisks: 6 units of SSD.
  9. Simon Ravn

    Simon Ravn Senior Member

    We already determined the issue happens with Logic so I have a hard time seeing how that is helpful.
    constaneum likes this.
  10. constaneum

    constaneum Senior Member

    so it's pure logic issue huh ? lol. ok. ignore the setup then. pardon me for overlooking the messages.
  11. leon chevalier

    leon chevalier Cinematic Studio Fanboy

    Nov 19, 2015
    @Alex W
    I'm a cubase 8/win10 user and it happened to me a while ago. And I've found a work around, but not a fix.

    I noticed that it only happen when I grab some midi notes in the piano roll and move them up or down with the keyboard arrows, with notes playback on !

    So the group of notes is played many times quickly every semi tone and it give me one hanging note (but not always).

    Because of that I turned off the note playback (or midi playback, not sure of the name, I think it's a button with a little speaker on the piano roll editor) and never experienced it again.

    More precision : I open several midi channels at the same in the piano roll that are all linked to the same kontakt instance with V1, V2, Viola, C, DB in it. So when I move notes it affect every instrument at the same time.

    I'm not sure, but it seems that it happen more when legato is on.

    It is definitely linked to a huge amount of note sent to the VI.

    If I had to guess I would say that somewhere between cubase and kontakt a note release data is not sent or not processed.

    I hope it helps to build a debug scenario.

    Thanks for your fantastic work, and please release woodwinds :P
    Last edited: May 14, 2019
  12. AoiichiNiiSan

    AoiichiNiiSan New Member

    Dec 16, 2016
    I've actually had this issue happen in Reaper, of all DAWs. However, the issue has been consistently fixed by raising my DFD buffer from 6kb to 12 or 18kb. Whichever works seems highly dependent on project size and complexity. This is on Windows 10, running a 5820k, 32gb RAM, and RME Babyface Pro.
    Land of Missing Parts likes this.
  13. Carson

    Carson New Member

    Jan 22, 2019
    lol no it’s not a Logic X only issue :)
    constaneum likes this.
  14. ricoderks

    ricoderks Member

    Jan 11, 2014
    Hi Alex!

    Sure it's not THAT big of a problem. I use the midi reset feature from the menu to solve it.
    This are the specs:

    Windows 7/10 PRO 64-bit
    Intel Core i7-5960X @ 3.00-3.50GHz
    64GB RAM
    Midi input Device: Native Instrument Komplete 88 (1st generation)
    Interface: Arturia Audiofuse.
    Daw: Cubase 9.5/10 pro
    Kontakt: 5/6

    I also tried the steinberg UR242 and Scarlett 2i2.
    Also with or without vienna ensemble. Both scenarios the same. Happens mostly on legato strings here. Sometimes legato brass. But that rarely happens.

    My colleague here runs OSX Yosemite I think but also has hanging notes sometimes.
    We asked a expert and said we should install CSW to resolve the problem :P

    Jokes aside... It can be a little annoying but that's totally worth it. Maybe you'll find the problem!
    Good luck and thanks for checking.

    Land of Missing Parts likes this.
  15. Si_Withenshaw

    Si_Withenshaw New Member

    Sep 24, 2016
    I've never had any issues with CSS but I get hanging notes quite often with CSB. It happens when I stop my DAW playing while a (legato) note is playing. (Windows 10, Cubase/Nuendo 10, RME Babyface Pro)
  16. Bender-offender

    Bender-offender I said pea berry, not sandalwood!

    Oct 16, 2011
    I have this happen occasionally as well while using Cubase on a Mac. Although, my CSS and CSB libraries are on VEP PC slaves. I normally get stuck notes when doing my own SFZ with sustain or tremolo patches.

    I’m using Expression Maps and FlexRouter with each CSS/CSB in its own individually kontakt.
  17. averystemmler

    averystemmler Active Member

    Sep 22, 2017
    That sounds similar to a situation I used to have in Cubase. Rapid controller and note input on multiple midi devices simultaneously would cause notes to hang, regardless of library. It was repeatable by playing notes while sending CCs from a separate device. The more notes and CCs being sent, the more reliably it would hang.

    It could have been a USB bus throughput issue on my end, but is what you experience similarly repeatable?
  18. Bender-offender

    Bender-offender I said pea berry, not sandalwood!

    Oct 16, 2011
    I honestly couldn’t tell you. I have duplicates of the same patch loaded for each instrument (ie, 4 Horns and 4 Horns, etc) on separate MIDI channels, and when I get a stuck note, I’ll move the MIDI region to one of the duplicates and the stuck note goes away even though it’s an exact copy of the original patch. So it’s random on my end. Also, this happens exclusively with CSS/CSB on my system. I don’t experience stuck notes with any other library.
  19. OP
    Land of Missing Parts

    Land of Missing Parts No Time for Honky-Tonk

    Jan 27, 2013
    I'm getting hanging notes when I select a lot of CSB midi notes at once, since Logic plays the notes when you select them. And I also get them when I stop playback in the middle of long notes, as @Si_Withenshaw mentioned.
    Si_Withenshaw likes this.
  20. Saxer

    Saxer Senior Member

    Mar 30, 2008
    I remember when Berlin Strings came out they were unusable (at least for me) because of hanging notes. It happened when notes were playing to the end of a region (i.e. by the "force legato" function). Actually note-offs too close to the region end. Maybe single note-offs and some other midi event overlapping? OT fixed it in an update.
    Btw I use Logic and don't have hanging notes in CSS/CSB.

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