CSS/ CSB Hanging Notes

averystemmler

Active Member
Just a wild, uninformed guess: since it seems to be primarily Logic, and those with this issue mentioned several other Kontakt libraries with hung notes, is it possible that it could be something with the AU version of Kontakt? Are those of you with troubles on Kontakt 5 or Kontakt 6?
 

Simon Ravn

Senior Member
Just a wild, uninformed guess: since it seems to be primarily Logic, and those with this issue mentioned several other Kontakt libraries with hung notes, is it possible that it could be something with the AU version of Kontakt? Are those of you with troubles on Kontakt 5 or Kontakt 6?
YES of course! Kontakt is just broken, and no-one noticed this before you, right now. Thank you for that insight... Sorry for the sarcasm:)

And now back to reality. No it's not Kontakt. I don't have this problem with libraries in general. I had it happen with some version of Cinebrass, but I think their 1.7 update fixed it.

It happens a lot with both CSS and CSB. Only legato/marcato (which are also legato) patches I believe, as others pointed out. Also seems to be triggered by rewinding/forwarding if I recall - it's been a while since I sat down with either library.

But I will write Alex with my findings, and if others do as well, hopefully he will be able to come up with a fix.
 

averystemmler

Active Member
YES of course! Kontakt is just broken, and no-one noticed this before you, right now. Thank you for that insight... Sorry for the sarcasm:)
Easy there cowboy. Troubleshooting is a process of finding the common denominator. With difficult-to-reproduce bugs dispersed across a broad userbase, every variable helps. If, for instance, everyone with hung notes is on version 5.8, using the Audio Units version, and everyone without is on version 6 or using a VST, that is useful information. I never said Kontakt is "just broken."

Not that it matters much to me. My notes are stopping when I want them to. ;)
 

clisma

Active Member
Fantastic of @Alex W to chime in and help troubleshoot. So here are my specs to get things rolling, many eyes being better than two for comparisons:

MacPro 2009 (flashed to 5,1), 3.06Ghz, 56GB, Sierra 10.12.6, RME UFX+, Roland FA-08 Master Keys, Audiosport 4x4 MIDI interface, Evolution UC-33e fader box, ilok2 and ancient Steinberg key, Logic 10.4.4, Kontakt 5.8.1.
 

Simon Ravn

Senior Member
Easy there cowboy. Troubleshooting is a process of finding the common denominator. With difficult-to-reproduce bugs dispersed across a broad userbase, every variable helps. If, for instance, everyone with hung notes is on version 5.8, using the Audio Units version, and everyone without is on version 6 or using a VST, that is useful information. I never said Kontakt is "just broken."

Not that it matters much to me. My notes are stopping when I want them to. ;)
It is on all versions of kontakt. 5.5 and beyond. People who have this problem knows its been there since the release of CSS.
 

ReelToLogic

Still have my reel-to-reel
Hi everyone,

This issue has been brought to my attention from time to time over the years. The two problems are: we've never been able to replicate it on our systems, and the users that experience it all report it as being completely random, with no reliable way of causing it. Both of these things make it very difficult to isolate the cause and resolve the issue; we're essentially taking stabs in the dark. We did try a whole bunch of things, but there's really no obvious reason why this should be happening at all.

Based on the very small number of support requests we've received regarding this issue, it does seem that it only affects a specific subset of Logic users. @ricoderks - sorry to hear that you experienced it in Cubase, but this is the first time in several years we've had a report of it from anyone not using Logic. That's not to minimise your problem Rico, but it's possible that whatever is causing your issue is unrelated to what the majority of folks in this thread (and via tech support) are experiencing.

Perhaps one practical step we can take is to try and identify any commonality between the setups of folks in this thread. Would you guys mind posting your specs, including audio interface makes / models, and any other external hardware that might somehow be relevant? It's still a long shot, but it might be worth a try.

Thanks!
Alex
Thanks, Alex! Just PM'd you my info.
 

constaneum

Senior Member
Hi everyone,

This issue has been brought to my attention from time to time over the years. The two problems are: we've never been able to replicate it on our systems, and the users that experience it all report it as being completely random, with no reliable way of causing it. Both of these things make it very difficult to isolate the cause and resolve the issue; we're essentially taking stabs in the dark. We did try a whole bunch of things, but there's really no obvious reason why this should be happening at all.

Based on the very small number of support requests we've received regarding this issue, it does seem that it only affects a specific subset of Logic users. @ricoderks - sorry to hear that you experienced it in Cubase, but this is the first time in several years we've had a report of it from anyone not using Logic. That's not to minimise your problem Rico, but it's possible that whatever is causing your issue is unrelated to what the majority of folks in this thread (and via tech support) are experiencing.

Perhaps one practical step we can take is to try and identify any commonality between the setups of folks in this thread. Would you guys mind posting your specs, including audio interface makes / models, and any other external hardware that might somehow be relevant? It's still a long shot, but it might be worth a try.

Thanks!
Alex :)
I dont have any problem with CSS, CSSS or CSB but here's my setup. Hope it'll help in some way.

1) OS : Windows 10 Professional 64 bit
2) Audio Interface: Alesis IO|2 Express USB Audio interface
3) Digital audio workstation software: FL Studio 20 64 bit.
4) Kontakt: Last release for Kontakt 5.
5) PC Spec:
  • CPU: Intel Core i7-7700
  • RAM: 32 GB
  • Motherboard: ASUS B250 Prime
  • Power Supply: Superflower 550W Gold
  • Hardisks: 6 units of SSD.
 

Simon Ravn

Senior Member
I dont have any problem with CSS, CSSS or CSB but here's my setup. Hope it'll help in some way.

1) OS : Windows 10 Professional 64 bit
2) Audio Interface: Alesis IO|2 Express USB Audio interface
3) Digital audio workstation software: FL Studio 20 64 bit.
4) Kontakt: Last release for Kontakt 5.
5) PC Spec:
  • CPU: Intel Core i7-7700
  • RAM: 32 GB
  • Motherboard: ASUS B250 Prime
  • Power Supply: Superflower 550W Gold
  • Hardisks: 6 units of SSD.
We already determined the issue happens with Logic so I have a hard time seeing how that is helpful.
 

leon chevalier

Piano roll musician
@Alex W
I'm a cubase 8/win10 user and it happened to me a while ago. And I've found a work around, but not a fix.

I noticed that it only happen when I grab some midi notes in the piano roll and move them up or down with the keyboard arrows, with notes playback on !

So the group of notes is played many times quickly every semi tone and it give me one hanging note (but not always).

Because of that I turned off the note playback (or midi playback, not sure of the name, I think it's a button with a little speaker on the piano roll editor) and never experienced it again.

More precision : I open several midi channels at the same in the piano roll that are all linked to the same kontakt instance with V1, V2, Viola, C, DB in it. So when I move notes it affect every instrument at the same time.

I'm not sure, but it seems that it happen more when legato is on.

It is definitely linked to a huge amount of note sent to the VI.

If I had to guess I would say that somewhere between cubase and kontakt a note release data is not sent or not processed.

I hope it helps to build a debug scenario.

Thanks for your fantastic work, and please release woodwinds :P
 
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AoiichiNiiSan

New Member
I've actually had this issue happen in Reaper, of all DAWs. However, the issue has been consistently fixed by raising my DFD buffer from 6kb to 12 or 18kb. Whichever works seems highly dependent on project size and complexity. This is on Windows 10, running a 5820k, 32gb RAM, and RME Babyface Pro.
 

ricoderks

Active Member
Hi everyone,

This issue has been brought to my attention from time to time over the years. The two problems are: we've never been able to replicate it on our systems, and the users that experience it all report it as being completely random, with no reliable way of causing it. Both of these things make it very difficult to isolate the cause and resolve the issue; we're essentially taking stabs in the dark. We did try a whole bunch of things, but there's really no obvious reason why this should be happening at all.

Based on the very small number of support requests we've received regarding this issue, it does seem that it only affects a specific subset of Logic users. @ricoderks - sorry to hear that you experienced it in Cubase, but this is the first time in several years we've had a report of it from anyone not using Logic. That's not to minimise your problem Rico, but it's possible that whatever is causing your issue is unrelated to what the majority of folks in this thread (and via tech support) are experiencing.

Perhaps one practical step we can take is to try and identify any commonality between the setups of folks in this thread. Would you guys mind posting your specs, including audio interface makes / models, and any other external hardware that might somehow be relevant? It's still a long shot, but it might be worth a try.

Thanks!
Alex :)
Hi Alex!

Sure it's not THAT big of a problem. I use the midi reset feature from the menu to solve it.
This are the specs:

Windows 7/10 PRO 64-bit
Intel Core i7-5960X @ 3.00-3.50GHz
64GB RAM
Midi input Device: Native Instrument Komplete 88 (1st generation)
Interface: Arturia Audiofuse.
Daw: Cubase 9.5/10 pro
Kontakt: 5/6

I also tried the steinberg UR242 and Scarlett 2i2.
Also with or without vienna ensemble. Both scenarios the same. Happens mostly on legato strings here. Sometimes legato brass. But that rarely happens.

My colleague here runs OSX Yosemite I think but also has hanging notes sometimes.
We asked a expert and said we should install CSW to resolve the problem :P

Jokes aside... It can be a little annoying but that's totally worth it. Maybe you'll find the problem!
Good luck and thanks for checking.


Rico
 

Si_Withenshaw

New Member
I've never had any issues with CSS but I get hanging notes quite often with CSB. It happens when I stop my DAW playing while a (legato) note is playing. (Windows 10, Cubase/Nuendo 10, RME Babyface Pro)
 

Bender-offender

Active Member
I have this happen occasionally as well while using Cubase on a Mac. Although, my CSS and CSB libraries are on VEP PC slaves. I normally get stuck notes when doing my own SFZ with sustain or tremolo patches.

I’m using Expression Maps and FlexRouter with each CSS/CSB in its own individually kontakt.
 

averystemmler

Active Member
normally get stuck notes when doing my own SFZ with sustain or tremolo patches
That sounds similar to a situation I used to have in Cubase. Rapid controller and note input on multiple midi devices simultaneously would cause notes to hang, regardless of library. It was repeatable by playing notes while sending CCs from a separate device. The more notes and CCs being sent, the more reliably it would hang.

It could have been a USB bus throughput issue on my end, but is what you experience similarly repeatable?
 

Bender-offender

Active Member
That sounds similar to a situation I used to have in Cubase. Rapid controller and note input on multiple midi devices simultaneously would cause notes to hang, regardless of library. It was repeatable by playing notes while sending CCs from a separate device. The more notes and CCs being sent, the more reliably it would hang.

It could have been a USB bus throughput issue on my end, but is what you experience similarly repeatable?
I honestly couldn’t tell you. I have duplicates of the same patch loaded for each instrument (ie, 4 Horns and 4 Horns, etc) on separate MIDI channels, and when I get a stuck note, I’ll move the MIDI region to one of the duplicates and the stuck note goes away even though it’s an exact copy of the original patch. So it’s random on my end. Also, this happens exclusively with CSS/CSB on my system. I don’t experience stuck notes with any other library.
 

Saxer

Senior Member
I remember when Berlin Strings came out they were unusable (at least for me) because of hanging notes. It happened when notes were playing to the end of a region (i.e. by the "force legato" function). Actually note-offs too close to the region end. Maybe single note-offs and some other midi event overlapping? OT fixed it in an update.
Btw I use Logic and don't have hanging notes in CSS/CSB.