CSS/ CSB Hanging Notes

Land of Missing Parts

flibbertigibbet
Cinematic Studio Strings and Brass are my go-tos and I love them to death. But I get so many hanging notes and particularly the CSB hanging notes can be earsplitting.

I wonder if there is something wrong about the way that I'm using them that's causing it.

I'm running in Logic X, and I typically use articulation sets that switch using cc58. Instances are in Kontakt 5.8.1, sometimes running in Vienna Ensemble Pro (same computer), sometimes loaded directly into Logic. My disks read pretty fast so I don't think it's a disk drive issue.

One possible problem is running multitimbral instruments that route the midi info of several instruments through a single articulation set. Maybe there's some kind of midi traffic jam?

The more likely scenario is that I'm just getting CPU spikes, as Logic is prone to this. But I thought maybe running in VEP would distribute the CPU load, and I still get hanging notes in VEP fairly often.

I don't see people mentioning hanging notes in CSS and CSB often, so I wonder if it's not a common issue people are running into?
 

Brian Nowak

Active Member
Oh no. It's often complained about and is apparently a bigger problem in Logic Pro X than other DAWs. I love both libraries too, but get tons of hanging notes once project sizes get bigger. I'm on 10.4.3 and it's a constant problem. Trailer music guys complain about CSS hanging notes all the time.

I "think" having MIDI chase on maybe makes it worse. It's particularly bad in legato passages, but it's a known issue with marcato as well. I'm just quick on pushing play/stop again to mute it, or I stop and move the playhead to a different position and that can help silence it as well. It would be nice if Alex and the Logic team could get to the bottom of what exactly is causing the problem to happen. It would make things a lot more pleasant to work with.
 

Carson

New Member
I absolutely love CSSS. But I’m often terrified to use it in shows. It’s the only library I’ve had problems with hanging notes. I’ve taken a chance in two shows so far (MainStage but it’s hung in Logic for me too). It hasn’t hung in performance, but it has during programming, a rehearsal or two.

It’s one of the reasons I purchased SSS on WL recently.
 

marclawsonmusic

Senior Member
I will say I have noticed the same thing in Logic X, but have chalked it up to the delay compensation built into their legato engine. At least, I think I have only noticed it on legato patches - only during editing but not during playback.
 
OP
Land of Missing Parts

Land of Missing Parts

flibbertigibbet
Im just a bit confused since everyone rants and raves that this is the best string library out there.
To keep this thread on track as more of a troubleshooting discussion, I'd rather just hear whether people have found ways to minimize the hanging notes, and what people's experience with them has been.

Thanks. :)
 
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Carson

New Member
The library sounds and plays absolutely beautifully. In productions it’s practically indistinguishable from live players.

That being said, it does scare me! I personally can’t seem to replicate it. I’ve tried stress testing palming keys, double octave scales, and just seems to be random.

But - something that SEEMS to help (mind you this is in MainStage, live performance) is cycling through the patches to get by the initial CPU spike and giving the mod wheel a little jiggle. Ever since I’ve stuck to that routine, haven’t seemed to have a hang.
 

The Darris

Senior Member
No issues over here as a Cubase guy but I have those issues in other libraries so I feel your frustration. Have you tried setting up the patches for a slightly different workflow than the one you are using to see if that effects change? It can suck to not be able to setup a library to do what you want it to, especially since the library is designed to work in that way. With that said, i know Logic X has problems concerning Kontakt and how certain libraries function. If you are able to find a work around, this may be insightful to Alex so he can work on a proper fix. I don't know if you've reached out to him yet with your issues and have gotten a response but by and large, his support is usually top notch.

Good luck,

C
 

ReelToLogic

Still have my reel-to-reel
I'm glad to see this thread, because I get hung notes all the time with CSS (using Logic Pro X) and have always wondered if was just me, or if others also had the problem. I don't use articulation sets like LotMP, and I don't have the problem with other sound libraries. I love CSS and still use it a lot, so I'd also love to hear if others have a way to minimize or prevent this....maybe Alex W will chime in if he's on VI-Control?
 
OP
Land of Missing Parts

Land of Missing Parts

flibbertigibbet
but have chalked it up to the delay compensation built into their legato engine.
I "think" having MIDI chase on maybe makes it worse. It's particularly bad in legato passages, but it's a known issue with marcato as well.
Excellent points.

1. I'd have to check, but I think I don't get hanging notes with CSS classic legato, only the delayed kind (i.e. standard legato or advanced legato). I typically use CSS classic legato when I am playing in, and switch to advanced legato with NoamL's Thanos script to retain my timings.

2. I believe I get hanging notes with legato (i.e. connected sustain notes) and marcato, which is to say only the articulations with transitions.

3. I do keep midi chase on nearly all the time (A setting in Logic X).
If you are able to find a work around, this may be insightful to Alex so he can work on a proper fix.
I haven't yet communicated with this about Alex, but I probably will soon. I will post updates if I learn anything that might be helpful to other folks.
 

Brian Nowak

Active Member
As far as I know, workflow matters very little here. Using them as multi instruments or track-per-articulation doesn't really matter. Long notes tend to hang. Using keyswitches vs articulation maps doesn't seem to effect the issue. Thanos doesn't seem to effect its occurrence.

The only sure thing across all the people I have talked to with the issue is that as the project gets larger (longer and with more tracks) notes start to hang more.

In my situation, I tend to notice it more if I start playing from busy passages or when I'm using MIDI chase and I start playing or stop in the middle of a long note. But it is quite random. Sometimes it will do it every time. Sometimes it will do it once and then not again. I just try to start and stop at points where there are clear gaps in notes.

For what it's worth, cinebrass also hangs a lot, and I do get hanging notes in the Arks as well. But CSS/CSSS/CSB are by far the worst offenders.
 

averystemmler

Active Member
I haven't gotten stuck notes in a project in ages. The last time I did, it was in Cubase, and it had to do with having too many midi devices sending data at once. I expect the note-offs got lost in the flurry.

Weirdly, connecting everything to MIDI-OX and sending it all to Cubase over one interapplication midi port (I use loopbe30) solved it. I've primarily moved on to Reaper, but I still use MIDI-OX for other conveniences, and everything remains just dandy.

I use CSS, CSSS, and CSB on a slave via VE Pro, and a bunch of other stuff locally. Only 32GB ram on the slave, CSx libraries are on an SSD, Kontakt buffer size set to the lowest. I have all three mic positions loaded for each instrument. Haven't had a stuck note since the incident above; I'm kinda surprised it seems to be so common. That would drive me nuts.

EDIT (for troubleshooting): I also always have MIDI chase on in my DAWs.
 

Simon Ravn

Senior Member
I have hanging notes with sustain/legato patches in CSS/CSB as well. Really annoying but I am not holding my breath for a fix. Perhaps if enough of us write directly to the developer but I don't know... I too am on Logic + VEP combination - and I can't give up on MIDI chase to solve this. Chasing is far too important and neccessary.
 

Alex W

Senior Member
Hi everyone,

This issue has been brought to my attention from time to time over the years. The two problems are: we've never been able to replicate it on our systems, and the users that experience it all report it as being completely random, with no reliable way of causing it. Both of these things make it very difficult to isolate the cause and resolve the issue; we're essentially taking stabs in the dark. We did try a whole bunch of things, but there's really no obvious reason why this should be happening at all.

Based on the very small number of support requests we've received regarding this issue, it does seem that it only affects a specific subset of Logic users. @ricoderks - sorry to hear that you experienced it in Cubase, but this is the first time in several years we've had a report of it from anyone not using Logic. That's not to minimise your problem Rico, but it's possible that whatever is causing your issue is unrelated to what the majority of folks in this thread (and via tech support) are experiencing.

Perhaps one practical step we can take is to try and identify any commonality between the setups of folks in this thread. Would you guys mind posting your specs, including audio interface makes / models, and any other external hardware that might somehow be relevant? It's still a long shot, but it might be worth a try.

Thanks!
Alex :)