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Cinematic Studio Strings

Hey thanks very much kurtvanzo. I had to check but yes I have the 1.1. update. I have a mid-2001 i5 iMac and tend to need to use a 256 sample buffer to minimise the cpu clicks, so that's probably not helping, but I tried it there again just now and I still experience quite a delay on CCS shorts (e.g. staccs) that I don't experience sy on pianos, guitars etc, using the same buffer setting. So I just looked up the CSS manual and it states there is a delay of 60ms on shorts (to the rhythmic peak).
 
Sorry for asking something that has been asked ad nauseam already I'm sure, but I'm torn between buying CCS and CS2 and I'd really appreciate your insight, guys.

Based on walkthrough videos I love CCS's legato, harmonics and articulations in general. But to me, it feels like tone of CS2 is more vivid (but maybe with some reverb and eq/exciter they could some rather identical?), the dynamic range wider, there's better vibrato control and it handles faster passages and runs much better than CSS (maybe there'll be a run mode in the future?). I'm now listening to this

and to me, the run mode and live mode fast passages sound really good, much better than demos of CSS runs I've heard so far.

Thx for sharing your thoughts!

CSS has reduced my use of CS2 to almost exclusively the Full Ensemble patch. As someone who loves CS2 and used it as my workhorse string library for many years, I can assure you that CSS is superior is just about every way imaginable. Also, CS2 is very wet, CSS is much less so. You can always make samples wetter, but not drier.
 
Are there any fast legato/runs demos someone can point me to?

6 minutes into this legato video, Alex suggests using marcato for fast legato lines and even runs. It has the fast legato built in yet velocity can be used to accent notes. With or without the overlay the runs sound good. :)

 
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Hey thanks very much kurtvanzo. I had to check but yes I have the 1.1. update. I have a mid-2001 i5 iMac and tend to need to use a 256 sample buffer to minimise the cpu clicks, so that's probably not helping, but I tried it there again just now and I still experience quite a delay on CCS shorts (e.g. staccs) that I don't experience sy on pianos, guitars etc, using the same buffer setting. So I just looked up the CSS manual and it states there is a delay of 60ms on shorts (to the rhythmic peak).

This is strange as I've never noticed, and usually anything over 30ms is annoying on fast notes, but I'll try a test with metronome and a few libraries with CSS...
CSS has reduced my use of CS2 to almost exclusively the Full Ensemble patch. As someone who loves CS2 and used it as my workhorse string library for many years, I can assure you that CSS is superior is just about every way imaginable. Also, CS2 is very wet, CSS is much less so. You can always make samples wetter, but not drier.

I agree. Ironically the CS2 ensemble patches don't come with close mics, only section mixes, but the individual section patches do have a close mic that is drier and can be mixed with other libraries/reverbs. I like the sweeter sound of CSS, but for a bigger presence CS2 is a great layer to add.
 
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Hey thanks very much kurtvanzo. I had to check but yes I have the 1.1. update. I have a mid-2001 i5 iMac and tend to need to use a 256 sample buffer to minimise the cpu clicks, so that's probably not helping, but I tried it there again just now and I still experience quite a delay on CCS shorts (e.g. staccs) that I don't experience sy on pianos, guitars etc, using the same buffer setting. So I just looked up the CSS manual and it states there is a delay of 60ms on shorts (to the rhythmic peak).

You are right Byz, after recording the different shorts I can see the 60ms delay (some are even a little more) I've highlighted exactly 60ms here (grey lines are 10ms incriments) to show the gap ...

CSS Stac Test 60ms.png

Seems Marcato and Sfz need the ramptime but Spiccato, Staccatisimo, and Staccato could be trimmed by 30ms (zoomed in and highlighted below). Hopefully Alex will add an offset knob for each articulation someday soon (perhaps on an advanced edit page?)- could use a waveform display with that too. ;)

CSS Stac Test Zoom.png
 
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Thx for responses!

I own both and really like them both. If you eventually plan to buy both then one thing to consider is the discount- if you buy CS2 then he gives you a big discount on CSS (30% off -from $399 to $279) which Alex mentioned doesn't have an expiration date. So getting CS2 first would save yon some serious $$ on CSS in the future. You can write Alex first to be sure, he's a great guy who normally responds pretty quickly (from Austrailia). :)
Wow, I didn't know that. I've tried to find anything about it but there's nothing on CS2 or CSS product pages. Where did you get the information from? Man, buying CS2 for 299 and CSS for 279 later would be fantastic, I think I'd take them both then. :grin:
 
@Alex W is there any chance you will be running a promotion for CSS for Black Friday or maybe even Christmas??? Dying to get this but i honestly don't have enough money to do so. $399 is pretty good as it is but when you convert it...it's a lot of cash from where i come from due to exchange rates....:sad:.

Anyhow even if you guys don't run a promotion, I'll wait for whenever it does and eventually buy it for sure cause man those strings are just amazing man...Kudos on that:2thumbs:.

Cheers.
 
Excellent analysis kurtvanzo. The ability to adjust the sample offset for recording / play-in would make these shorts a lot more playable. After playing-in, one could return to the original sample and shift all the midi forward to reintroduce the realism. I would imagine an adjustable sample offset would be a relatively minor software change. Hopefully the good Alex is listening.... (The delay does seem to bother a lot of people, would be good PR/customer service, could increase sales etc).
 
I feel like I have to say something here because a lot of people have some opinions about CSS that I don’t agree with. I CSS is a real great library it’s probably even the best string library on the market in my opinion. And this is for the simple reason that it’s a very, very polished and well thought out library with a great sound.

There’s a lot to like with it but one of the main features that I really like is the delay and this is where I feel like I need to say something because I can’t understand the people who complain that the legato delay is interrupting workflow. The legato in CSS is also some of the best and to achieve this you need the legato delay. I know a couple of other companies have less delay in their legatos but it’s also not as good and I find it to be very inconsistent most of the time since they are trying to minimize the delay and don’t take into account that all transitions are not equal. Basically they have not measured the legato transition which makes it so that they all have different delays and that kills it for me. The way that CSS does it is great and to me is worth so much.

All I have to do is play the passage in normally (even with a normal sustain patch works if I don’t want any delay at all) and then since I know the delay is 200ms I know exactly how much I need to move the start points to get the legato to line up and then I’m done. It’s great.

I find with a lot of other libraries I’ve been using I have to figure this out by ear because the developers try and make the transitions as small as possible and sometimes the players take longer to get to some note which makes this very cumbersome to have to go through all the legato notes and move them by ear to get them to line up.

I hope Alex and his team will stick to what they have envisioned and not get turned off by these kinds of comments because it’s usually the people who dislike something that get heard the most while the people who love the product and have nothing to contribute stay quiet and just enjoy what they have. It’s good to get both sides.

But the legato offset is a good idea, like the way spitfire does it. Then you can have the best of both worlds.
 
All I have to do is play the passage in normally (even with a normal sustain patch works if I don’t want any delay at all) and then since I know the delay is 200ms I know exactly how much I need to move the start points to get the legato to line up and then I’m done. It’s great.

The problem is all the different types of legato have different lengths (Fast-100ms, Medium-250, Slow-333ms). So if you have a part that uses the different speeds you'll have to tweak each individual note for it to be in time.

What a lot of us are asking is that all the legatos have the same latency (333ms for example) that way all we have to do is adjust the track delay compensation (I'm using Cubase) and all the notes will be in time.
 
I agree Daniel F, I hope CSB and CSWW keeps the same sample pre-roll approach.
 
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I feel like I have to say something here because a lot of people have some opinions about CSS that I don’t agree with. I CSS is a real great library it’s probably even the best string library on the market in my opinion. And this is for the simple reason that it’s a very, very polished and well thought out library with a great sound.

There’s a lot to like with it but one of the main features that I really like is the delay and this is where I feel like I need to say something because I can’t understand the people who complain that the legato delay is interrupting workflow. The legato in CSS is also some of the best and to achieve this you need the legato delay. I know a couple of other companies have less delay in their legatos but it’s also not as good and I find it to be very inconsistent most of the time since they are trying to minimize the delay and don’t take into account that all transitions are not equal. Basically they have not measured the legato transition which makes it so that they all have different delays and that kills it for me. The way that CSS does it is great and to me is worth so much.

All I have to do is play the passage in normally (even with a normal sustain patch works if I don’t want any delay at all) and then since I know the delay is 200ms I know exactly how much I need to move the start points to get the legato to line up and then I’m done. It’s great.

I find with a lot of other libraries I’ve been using I have to figure this out by ear because the developers try and make the transitions as small as possible and sometimes the players take longer to get to some note which makes this very cumbersome to have to go through all the legato notes and move them by ear to get them to line up.

I hope Alex and his team will stick to what they have envisioned and not get turned off by these kinds of comments because it’s usually the people who dislike something that get heard the most while the people who love the product and have nothing to contribute stay quiet and just enjoy what they have. It’s good to get both sides.

But the legato offset is a good idea, like the way spitfire does it. Then you can have the best of both worlds.
People complain about the same delay problem with Tina Guo's legato. I don't really understand the complaints either.
 
Delay in true legato is the rule, deal with it.

CSS has the "classic patch" that have standard and constant delay (150 ms), that's quick enough to play realtime, and it is constant so you can set a negative delay to your midi track if you prefer it.
Then, after your composition is done, you can switch to advanced patches and edit the midi note per note to get the best performance, it takes a little of time but really worth it.
 
Yes, i would like that as well.
Does it not accomplish this to simply set all midi notes to the same velocity? This is easy to accomplish in Logic and hopefully in Cubase too (though I don't know).

So three step process:
1) perform in notes and cc dynamics in a known-length mode (classic legato or just sustain)
2) set all velocities to constant and nudge back accordingly
3) change to fancy legato mode
 
Regarding the discount coupon for CSS, if you buy CS2 on sale... I did email alex and he replied:

Nov 12, 11:41 AEDT

Hi Dana,

There's no pressure, the CSS discount lasts forever. :)

This is ideal for me as it leaves me with a bit more money to take advantage of some of the 8dio offerings and CS2 is quite wonderful sounding in it's own right! very happy this evening...
 
Does it not accomplish this to simply set all midi notes to the same velocity? This is easy to accomplish in Logic and hopefully in Cubase too (though I don't know).

So three step process:
1) perform in notes and cc dynamics in a known-length mode (classic legato or just sustain)
2) set all velocities to constant and nudge back accordingly
3) change to fancy legato mode


Absolutely, it would be nice however just to know that the same ms adjustment worked for all.
 
The delay issue is common in many libraries and I think that in CSS it's handled quite fine (to me one of the best string library available). A "slow legato" kind patch is by definition a transition to a certain note in a larger amount of time, so the delay is just due the transition itself. A real performer will naturally anticipate the transition to get on the next note in the right time.

The variable kind of delay (in the same kind of legato) is usually done to prevent the skipping of the reaching note when playing faster than the transition time.

(best thing anyway is to provide the user a tweak for legato speed, I'm not a incredibly fast performer, but users who fly on the keyboard would be thankful :) )
 
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