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Cinematic Studio Strings delay

Hasen6

Active Member
I watched the legato video walkthrough for CSS and I have to admit I'm a bit confused about the delay thing. He says there will be a delay ranging from 50ms to 300ms depending on the legato speed. He also says you can compensate for that by adding a midi negative delay in the track. But clearly the delay will vary depending on the legato speed used for each note?

Will this library be out of sync with other libraries unless I move the note positions or add a delay? How can I compensate for the different legato speeds throughout a phrase?
 

Christof

Senior Member
Very important question!
I love this library, but the variable delay/latency slows down the workflow.
Even the short patches have a delay which isn't necessary in my opinion.
Did you write Alex about this?
He is a very nice man to talk to.
 
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Hasen6

Active Member
How does it slow down the workflow? It causes everything to be out of sync does it not?
 

JohnBMears

Senior Member
How does it slow down the workflow? It causes everything to be out of sync does it not?
As in the flow of getting the work done- having to go back and re-edit legato slurs takes time and keeps you from moving on. I read somewhere on here where someone mentioned playing with a sustain patch only, then switching ON legato mode. I haven't tried it yet, but it would seem to me that this still wouldn't speed up the process as legato transitions would still need editing, but it could get the part played in without lag.

Concerning delays on shorts, I understand a bit more on why this is actually not a bad thing. The CineStrings video with Daniel James talked about the added realism of having the small amount of sample just before the bow strike to create some air and keep any short notes from being choked off at the beginning. I later switched my Hollywood Strings default short articulations for their "loose" shorts and set the negative delay and really thought it sounded better. I think for CineStrings it is 50ms. CSS is 80 I think.

I wondered if (for folks who are using the keyswitches, therefore one track per section) a possible solution would be setting a negative delay of 80ms, then quantizing your shorts. Then subtract 80 from the other latencies and use that as a guide for your legato transitions???
 

Saxer

Senior Member
This library definitely needs a full delay mode and a no delay realtime mode for all legatos and shorts.

Playing and composing with no delay and the possibility to quantize and export notation is absolutely essential.

And after finishing a track there should be the delayed mode where all articulations have the same delay (300ms) so that it's possible to "minus-delay" the whole track in one go and let all the advanced articulations shine.
 
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Hasen6

Active Member
This library definitely needs a full delay mode and a no delay realtime mode for all legatos and shorts.

Playing and composing with no delay and the possibility to quantize and export notation is absolutely essential.

And after finishing a track there should be the delayed mode where all articulations have the same delay (300ms) so that it's possible to "minus-delay" the whole track in one go and let all the advanced articulations shine.
But the delays can be anything from 50ms to 300ms so surely a negative 300ms would also mess up all the note positions. It wouldn't appear to solve anything unless you were using the slowest legato transitions exclusively.
 

Saxer

Senior Member
But the delays can be anything from 50ms to 300ms so surely a negative 300ms would also mess up all the note positions. It wouldn't appear to solve anything unless you were using the slowest legato transitions exclusively.
That's what I mean: this library is missing a full delay mode where all articulations have the same delay.
That means that every articulation should have 300ms delay in the delayed mode.
And for recording and playing there should be a fast mode for everything.

Shouldn't be a real problem to add delay to the faster samples. Orangetree offers such a mode switch in their angelic harp: a realtime mode and a delayed mode with some fingernail noise before the note starts.
 
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Hasen6

Active Member
Ok I see, I thought you were instructing how to use it properly but you were saying how it SHOULD be. So it is indeed a bit of a problem then.
 

Jediwario1

Composer
That's the best way (as Saxer explained), hopefully they'll implement this in an update and across the rest of the upcoming Cinematic Studio series.
 

milesito

Senior Member
It is beautifully sounding but unfortunately unusable in my book for now. The delays are not consistent enough to shift them ... I pray there be an update. In the mean time i am stuck figuring out and using the other magical sounding library - spitfire chamber strings ... Which I have really started using more since CSS is not functioning efficiently for me with the delay is due.
 
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Hasen6

Active Member
Doesn't spitfire chamber strings also feature a speed option which creates a smoother legato but with a delay?
 
M

mac

Guest
I play 99% of my notes in and can't cope with latency, it hurts my brain. As much as I like the sound of CSS, the delay issue stops me from purchasing. I imagine it's going to be the same with their brass and woods too :(
 

muk

Senior Member
I play 99% of my notes in and can't cope with latency, it hurts my brain.
That's exactly why I use either the sustain patch without legato to play in fast passages, or use the legato patch but layer a piano sound with close to zero latency on top. It takes a little getting used to, but for now it is a practicable workaround for playing parts in with CSS. To cut down editing time afterwards Saxer's idea sounds very good.
 

ysnyvz

Senior Member
I sent an email for a few requests including microtuning (patches are locked so I can't do it myself), individual patches for staccato, pizzicato, trills and sample start knob for staccato articulations.
He kindly refused all of them.
 

passsacaglia

Senior Member
The "no" delay thing would be magical.
How's the no-legato-sustains speed in CS2 for those who have it? About the same as in CSS?

It do sounds great to 100%, hard to beat, but the delay makes me avoid it as my 1st string library I actually hoped for... Slow Passages - no doubt, the best. But still. Maybe I'll go for CS2 or ...another library (still wonder what that'd be) in the future. But for now I use my OE1/Project sam strings in the 1st place. But will give CSS more time.
 
I sent an email for a few requests including microtuning (patches are locked so I can't do it myself), individual patches for staccato, pizzicato, trills and sample start knob for staccato articulations.
I programmed a Lemur template in my iPad to send MIDI CC's for controlling CSS, which provides buttons for individual, direct selection of staccato, pizzicato, etc. (as long as I don't mess with the mod wheel while using those short articulations, that is). At this point I couldn't imagine using CSS without such a control template ... it makes it SO much easier to dial up the exact articulation I want.

I like many of the other ideas in this thread, including a legato mode where everything is delayed by the same amount (300 ms or whatever) to facilitate those who would prefer to apply a general time offset to the track as a whole. But I wouldn't use such a thing myself because I have taken to using a single track for each of CSS's sections (unlike my use of any orchestral library before ... I'd always used one articulation per track). So an overall track offset would affect more than just the legato mode for me. And I haven't found CSS legatos to be at all unusable in their current form. Yes, I do have to go back in and tweak the note starts after playing them in, but the results of that tweaking are a level of realism that I haven't been able to achieve with any other string library to date, so I don't begrudge the time. I don't look for the exact offsets for each note based upon its precise velocity when doing so ... I just listen and adjust until it sounds right. In my opinion, the resulting slight inconsistencies between note start points only serve to make the results sound more real and human.

 
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Daryl

Senior Member
I don't think that I quite understand the issue. Let me know where I've got this wrong:
  1. Speed of transition is set by velocity
  2. You can filter all notes of a specific velocity range
  3. You can set these all to be 300ms (or any other figure) earlier
  4. You can increase the note lengths by the same amount, to make sure that gaps between notes remain the same.
  5. You can set a series of Macros to do this for every speed, so that with one key command the whole track is in time with the click, and gaps between notes are as originally played.
So from my understanding, the only problem is that the notes no longer align to the grid. Or is there another problem?
 
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