What's new

Cinematic Studio Brass?

LLGen

New Member
Here's more of the excerpt from Quidditch - the trumpets have such a clear quality I haven't been able to achieve with other libraries.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/quidditch-excerpt-mp3.17712/][/AUDIOPLUS]
Sounds good. Sorry if you mentioned this earlier, but were you able to play this in?
 

miguel88

New Member
how is the sound of the close mic? i hear someone that the close mic has a high weird noise. can this library sound dry
 

jdrcomposer

New Member
how is the sound of the close mic? i hear someone that the close mic has a high weird noise. can this library sound dry
I like the close microphones. It's a little hard to use with the solo instruments because of phasing between dynamics, but I like how dry it is.

Here are a few examples - Raider's Theme with only close microphones, then a passage of Simple Gifts with solo trumpet, then solo horn.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/raiders-close-mic-mp3.17726/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/simple-gifts-trumpet-mp3.17727/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/simple-gifts-horn-mp3.17728/][/AUDIOPLUS]
 

Attachments

Casiquire

Senior Member
I like the close microphones. It's a little hard to use with the solo instruments because of phasing between dynamics, but I like how dry it is.

Here are a few examples - Raider's Theme with only close microphones, then a passage of Simple Gifts with solo trumpet, then solo horn.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/raiders-close-mic-mp3.17726/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/simple-gifts-trumpet-mp3.17727/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/simple-gifts-horn-mp3.17728/][/AUDIOPLUS]
This library sounds incredible
 

michdb

New Member
I like the close microphones. It's a little hard to use with the solo instruments because of phasing between dynamics, but I like how dry it is.

Here are a few examples - Raider's Theme with only close microphones, then a passage of Simple Gifts with solo trumpet, then solo horn.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/raiders-close-mic-mp3.17726/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/simple-gifts-trumpet-mp3.17727/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/simple-gifts-horn-mp3.17728/][/AUDIOPLUS]
actually, I have a problem with close mic most instruments I can hear the phasing, how did you fix that? i have cinebrass core and i cant hear that with only the close mic
here a sample of the sound with csb

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/2-trumpet-close-mic-mp3.17737/][/AUDIOPLUS]
 

Attachments

Grim_Universe

Active Member
@michdb you can't do anything about it. We don't hear phasing problems in real recordings just because they are blurred out with early reflections.
I remember times when we tried to make SM brass to sound "cinematic" and we faced exactly the same problem with phasing. Then somebody asked guys from SM how to solve it and they told us that the phasing problem with 2 or 3 trumpets exists in a real life and can be solved only if you ask trumpet players to play differently from each other. In all other cases you need strong early reflections to mask phasing.
 

Saxer

Senior Member
Actually phasing is what makes the ensemble sound. Natural phasing between acoustic instruments has a more chaotic nature due to the pitch/timbre/timing variation of every single player. Samples are tuned and triggered by the same note-on and so the phasing can become more static and sounds kind of technical. Random detuning between the voices and dequantisation helps.
 
Hey all, ok so this is what happened regarding CSS/CSB Volume. I emailed Alex W to say that I had been trying to set up a template in imitation of some natural-sounding orchestral scores, particularly Silvestri's Captain America, and found that CSB was balanced at about -6 to -10 quieter than CSS, but I couldn't nail the exact value, so I asked him what the value should "officially" be.

I don't want to reproduce the email but Alex explained the following -

1. The libraries are 100% accurate out of the box. (and with how diligently and accurately everything else about these two libraries is programmed, I believe him!!). The brass simply are "that loud" in the room, and going into each set of mics. A really ripping sound!

2. In the CSB walkthrough video, Alex decreased the master Kontakt volume -9dB to avoid clipping of multiple instances of CSB, but this was not to balance CSB against CSS; both libraries should be reduced by the same amount if you're going to touch the master Kontakt volume.

3. "Correct" orchestration will take into account that the brass will be louder at the same written dynamic (ff trumpets will blow away ff strings). The top 20% of the modwheel for the brass should be used sparingly and deliberately.

4. (the key point) even though scores by Williams and Silvestri sound natural, they are still using the close mics to bring out the definition of the strings when that's needed. (I asked some other folks and they confirmed this.) This means that these film score recordings are not really accurate "Decca tree perspectives" of the orchestra, and that's why when balancing I was discovering different values from CSS/CSB out of the box. In real life, when the brass and strings are "striped" the engineer can do whatever with the two separate recordings. When the orchestra is recorded together (as in every JW score, as far as I'm aware), there will necessarily be "bleed" from all sections of the orchestra into the hall mics. But the engineer can still raise the strings against the brass & percussion by using the strings' close and section mics. A virtual emulation of this would involve keeping the Room mics at the same level for both CSS+CSB, while raising the Close and even Main mics of the strings.

So that's that ;) I'm gonna try the "close mic" technique while keeping the room mics level, and being very careful with the modwheel! :)
Is this using the Mix out of the box balance or just using the Main? So in other words you decrease all the Strings and Brass by -9db using the default Mix balance.
 

michdb

New Member
@michdb you can't do anything about it. We don't hear phasing problems in real recordings just because they are blurred out with early reflections.
I remember times when we tried to make SM brass to sound "cinematic" and we faced exactly the same problem with phasing. Then somebody asked guys from SM how to solve it and they told us that the phasing problem with 2 or 3 trumpets exists in a real life and can be solved only if you ask trumpet players to play differently from each other. In all other cases you need strong early reflections to mask phasing.
so the reason why in cinebrass doesn't have this problem is because on the close mic have more room sound? I m curious how the new spitfire brass sound with close mic
 

Grim_Universe

Active Member
@michdb can you please upload an example of how cinebrass sounds?
By the way, I think I know how you can "fix" this problem. Create two instances of solo trumpet and lower the pitch of one of them by -2. Then rise pitch of a midi channel by 2. That way you will trigger different samples of the same melody line and you can create a slightly different dynamics which will solve a phasing problem.
So basically you'll have two midi channels: one of them will remain untouched, and the second one will be pitched by +2 and sending signal to a -2 trumpet. Hope this helps!
 

michdb

New Member
@michdb can you please upload an example of how cinebrass sounds?
By the way, I think I know how you can "fix" this problem. Create two instances of solo trumpet and lower the pitch of one of them by -2. Then rise pitch of a midi channel by 2. That way you will trigger different samples of the same melody line and you can create a slightly different dynamics which will solve a phasing problem.
So basically you'll have two midi channels: one of them will remain untouched, and the second one will be pitched by +2 and sending signal to a -2 trumpet. Hope this helps!
i ll check that way
I left here with cinebrass

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/cb-trumpets-ensemble-close-mic-mp3.17753/][/AUDIOPLUS]
 

Attachments

Top Bottom