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Cinematic Studio Brass?

madfloyd

Active Member
I'm tempted by this, but it feels like an extravagance given a relatively recent outlay on Berlin Brass. Am I correct in thinking that Orchestral Tools don't allow reselling of their libraries?
I'm the same boat. Felt like I had to take advantage of the BF sale to get Berlin Strings... and then read that I could use my $100 coupon if I bought that + Berlin Brass together so I did. I hate myself now, especially since I knew that between OT's capsule and the library itself, Brass would probably never really be used... heck I haven't even downloaded it. I want THIS library much more.
 

galactic orange

Sensor Number
I'm the same boat. Felt like I had to take advantage of the BF sale to get Berlin Strings... and then read that I could use my $100 coupon if I bought that + Berlin Brass together so I did. I hate myself now, especially since I knew that between OT's capsule and the library itself, Brass would probably never really be used... heck I haven't even downloaded it. I want THIS library much more.
I really feel for you. Despite knowing CSB was on the horizon, I also bought Berlin Brass to use the coupon with Berlin Percussion. The lack of updates and the limited expressive range were concerns. I couldn’t afford BB until this deal + coupon so I jumped. After hearing the posted comparisons, there are still some things I like better about the sound. But the extra range of CSB can’t be denied. If OT came out with a Berlin Brass Revive (but free) sort of update with more expressive range and some balance tweaks I would be all over that. But as it stands, once CSB is in my template I’ll rarely look back.
 

mikefrommontreal

Active Member
Thanks for the examples. It's very interesting. I actually prefer the Berlin horn and trumpet in the quieter examples. It's a richer, mellower sound in the lower dynamics. CSB is a little thinner and brighter to my ears. But the dynamic range is far superior in the latter which make for a much more consistent performance in a dynamically charged piece.
That's interesting that you hear it that way. I agree that the Berlin Brass sounds mellower, but to my ears it also sounds a little flatter and less realistic. As a result I hear CSB as having the richer tone, regardless of the dynamics question.
 

galactic orange

Sensor Number
Would someone be willing to share the RAM used with all instruments loaded? I know this will vary based on Kontakt buffer settings, but a ballpark figure would be helpful.

And if you have CSS and CSSS, how much RAM with all of these loaded together?
 

TheSigillite

Active Member
Here is my template for Cinematic Studios so far.

With all samples purged I sit at 5.2 GB of RAM usage from Reaper
upload_2018-12-12_1-39-3.png

Reloading all CSB samples I sit now at 10GB RAM usage (it loads at about 4.5 GB)
upload_2018-12-12_1-42-6.png

Reloading all CSS and CSS samples (from the tracks you see below) I'm at 18.2 GB of RAM Usage
upload_2018-12-12_1-44-28.png

And finally loading Mr CS Piano and FX It brings me to a total of 18.44 GB of RAM usage using Reaper. Keep in mind this is
upload_2018-12-12_1-47-10.png

Windows 10 sits at 22GB of RAM usage with reaper and CSS, CSSS, CSB, and CSP. Hope this helps. I'm running with 32 GB of Total RAM for now. (going to 64 by end of year.) This is with a 60.0 kb buffer size. ( i had to increase at the time since Cinebrass was cutting off samples and I was getting DFD errors.) I think it's time to revisit that 6kb size again),
 

The Darris

Senior Member
Would someone be willing to share the RAM used with all instruments loaded? I know this will vary based on Kontakt buffer settings, but a ballpark figure would be helpful.

And if you have CSS and CSSS, how much RAM with all of these loaded together?
This will depend on where you have your "preload buffer" size set. If you have it at low as it goes, most patches in CSS and CSSS sit around 700-800 mb with all three mics load. If you have the highest preload buffer size, those patches sit more around 5-6 gb each while the default preload buffer size (60 kb) has those patches sitting around 2.3 gb each. So, just know that you have some flexibility. If you are working off of fast SSD's, you can set the preload buffer really low to save on loaded RAM and not have issues with playback, unless you are trigger a lot of instruments playing a lot of notes.

I have mine set to the lowest, 6kb, and haven't had major issues and I layer 3-4 libraries together per section. But, yeah, to answer your question, it will vary from user to user since we all set that preload buffer size differently.

Best,

Chris
 

tokatila

Senior Member
Just got the word from Best Service that developer has decided sell CSB exclusively from their own site, at least for first few months.
 

TheSigillite

Active Member
This will depend on where you have your "preload buffer" size set. If you have it at low as it goes, most patches in CSS and CSSS sit around 700-800 mb with all three mics load. If you have the highest preload buffer size, those patches sit more around 5-6 gb each while the default preload buffer size (60 kb) has those patches sitting around 2.3 gb each. So, just know that you have some flexibility. If you are working off of fast SSD's, you can set the preload buffer really low to save on loaded RAM and not have issues with playback, unless you are trigger a lot of instruments playing a lot of notes.

I have mine set to the lowest, 6kb, and haven't had major issues and I layer 3-4 libraries together per section. But, yeah, to answer your question, it will vary from user to user since we all set that preload buffer size differently.

Best,

Chris
Looks like setting the buffer size to 6kb and loading all mics for CSB i'm at 13.04 GB
upload_2018-12-12_2-18-9.png
 

jamwerks

Senior Member
People are loading all the mic's? Is the mixed mic not of liking?

In Kontakt, 6 kb is a pretty normal setting (providing you're reading from an SSD).
 

galactic orange

Sensor Number
Here is my template for Cinematic Studios so far.

With all samples purged I sit at 5.2 GB of RAM usage from Reaper
View attachment 17051

Reloading all CSB samples I sit now at 10GB RAM usage (it loads at about 4.5 GB)
View attachment 17053

Reloading all CSS and CSS samples (from the tracks you see below) I'm at 18.2 GB of RAM Usage
View attachment 17054

And finally loading Mr CS Piano and FX It brings me to a total of 18.44 GB of RAM usage using Reaper. Keep in mind this is
View attachment 17055

Windows 10 sits at 22GB of RAM usage with reaper and CSS, CSSS, CSB, and CSP. Hope this helps. I'm running with 32 GB of Total RAM for now. (going to 64 by end of year.) This is with a 60.0 kb buffer size. ( i had to increase at the time since Cinebrass was cutting off samples and I was getting DFD errors.) I think it's time to revisit that 6kb size again),
I’m using 32GB too hence the request. You’ve gone above and beyond with that detailed description and I appreciate your help very much. It looks like an orchestral template with CSB and CSS plus the other sections is feasible. I wasn’t sure though, was that with Mix mics only?
 

JohnBMears

Senior Member
From the first night with it, here is my takeaway:

_PATCHES

It seems (to my ears) if certain patches of HWB have been more carefully edited with consistent shorts and very good legato. It has that type of brightness and clarity to my ears. It also then has more of the room sound that CineBrass is appreciated for.

Trumpets, extremely clear- rivals the CineBrass core tpt ensemble (which is currently my go-to)

Horns, these will replace most of my need for HWB horns and ALL of my need of CineBrass core horns.

Bones, for my orchestration purposes- the need of chortal trombone accompaniment still makes Berlin Brass my tops. 3 individual players (fairly consistently programmed) is a huge step beyond using a solo patch thrice. BUT I haven't tried the transposition trick yet to 'make' three bones.

Tuba, all good- a bit reserved in 'stout' in my opinion, but it will fit the bill great.

_MICROPHONES

One thing that we disappointing about Berlin Brass to me was that TELDEX 'wetness' makes the non-directional brass instruments (Horns & Tuba) require extra mics. This can not only hog RAM, but I have never found a great recipe for mixing Berlin Series microphones. So many options so much RAM.

When I load the old SOLO HORN from CineBrass core, the mix mic gives it room and clarity in a limited ram footprint and I am happy to say that CSB horns maintain a clear focus thanks to the mix mic (but also sound great with room and close only)

If CSB dedicated a *little* more modwheel to the lower dynamics and actually sampled all the individual players that Berlin Brass did, it would have a batting average in the record books!

_REVERB

After writing a number of tracks using the ARKS (and then re-mixing them with more emphasis on close mics) my ears have leaned back towards wanting a space a bit drier than Teldex. Trackdown scoring stage sounds great for brass, I'd liken it to Sony/CineSamples room tone without longer tails.

I always heard CSS as a smaller, more detailed and better programmed HWS and CSB to me does the same for HWB.

I plan on posting a new track that uses it this weekend!
 

Consona

Senior Member
Would it be easy to mix CSB with Cinebrass instruments?

And most importantly, how's the legato? Is it better than Cinebrass' adaptive legato and 90s trumpets legato with auto borrowing?
 

I like music

Senior Member
Would it be easy to mix CSB with Cinebrass instruments?

And most importantly, how's the legato? Is it better than Cinebrass' adaptive legato and 90s trumpets legato with auto borrowing?
What is this autoborrowing people keep mentioning? Heard it for the first time on this thread, and since its first mention, it keeps getting mentioned!

I can't compare with Cinebrass, but the legato is very good. I'm sure examples are coming in soon!
 

Nicola74

Member
Anyone tried to use breath controller instead modwheel with CSB?
While with CSS everything is ok, with CSSS when I use breath c. the notes stops playing after 2 seconds more or less and then I can only listen to the release sample when I stop playing the key.
 

WindcryMusic

Lemurite
Would it be easy to mix CSB with Cinebrass instruments?

And most importantly, how's the legato? Is it better than Cinebrass' adaptive legato and 90s trumpets legato with auto borrowing?
In my tests of CSB last night against my other libraries (SSB, Cinebrass, MA1 and Forzo), I felt that CineBrass is the one that compared most closely with CSB. But the CSB legatos and dynamic range are both better than CineBrass IMO.
 
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