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Cinematic Studio Brass - out now!

Kony

Bad ape
It looks like the Bass Trombone & Tuba of this library are transposed an octave up. That is screwing up my expression map KS's.

Is there a way inside Kontakt to transpose all the samples back down an octave, without doing any midi transposing?
A specific expression map for these is one option
 
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jamwerks

Senior Member
Well that adjusted the octaves, but strangely now I'm missing the bottom octave of those instruments? I guess Alex did this to allow people with 60-key controllers to play these instruments. He should have addressed this in the manual !
 

leon chevalier

Piano roll musician
Well that adjusted the octaves, but strangely now I'm missing the bottom octave of those instruments? I guess Alex did this to allow people with 60-key controllers to play these instruments. He should have addressed this in the manual !
I don't use expression map but to have the instruments on the right octave on the piano roll, I transpose one octave up in the midi track and write the notes one octave down on the piano roll (at the real octave). So the midi notes arrived in kontakt as they supposed to arrive. And my bass lines are in the right octave.

I don't know if the midi track transposition affect exptession map, but even if it does, just change the expression map setting down of one octave
 

jamwerks

Senior Member
I don't use expression map but to have the instruments on the right octave on the piano roll, I transpose one octave up in the midi track and write the notes one octave down on the piano roll (at the real octave). So the midi notes arrived in kontakt as they supposed to arrive. And my bass lines are in the right octave.

I don't know if the midi track transposition affect exptession map, but even if it does, just change the expression map setting down of one octave
Thanks for that. Unfortunately the displayed KS's on the CSB interface get transposed also, and in my case that octave below is already being use by other controllers. There must by a way to shift all the mapping in Kontakt, but these are locked files.
 

jamwerks

Senior Member
Guess I'll have to move the KS's for those two instruments up to the C7 octave and make dedicated expression maps. :thumbsdown: :sad: :mad:

The library does sound awesome. It seems to have a real "PP" layer that neither Century Brass, nor CineBrass doesn't have. Kinda surprised how far to the right the Solo Trumpet is...
 

leon chevalier

Piano roll musician
Thanks for that. Unfortunately the displayed KS's on the CSB interface get transposed also, and in my case that octave below is already being use by other controllers. There must by a way to shift all the mapping in Kontakt, but these are locked files.
Ok then, you may have a look to some multi script transposition. As multi script happen before the instrument handle the incoming midi. You may try this : https://www.nilsliberg.se/ksp/scripts/scripts.html#transpose_range
(Not tested myself)
Edit: I read too quickly your initial post, as you said you do not want midi transposition, sorry for that
 
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ricoderks

Active Member
Hi everyone, I know this is not really the right place to post this but since it's a specific question to CSB I thought i put it here anyway. I'm looking for tips to mix the brass with the CSS strings. I'm not very fond of the standard mix positions. So I clicked close, tree and room mics on and fiddled around with them to try to make them sound more Williams-ish... I recreated a little part from Benny Oschmann's track as reference. Then I EQ-ed most of the strings and brass instruments. How would you guys approach this mixing process?

 

AoiichiNiiSan

New Member
Hi everyone, I know this is not really the right place to post this but since it's a specific question to CSB I thought i put it here anyway. I'm looking for tips to mix the brass with the CSS strings. I'm not very fond of the standard mix positions. So I clicked close, tree and room mics on and fiddled around with them to try to make them sound more Williams-ish... I recreated a little part from Benny Oschmann's track as reference. Then I EQ-ed most of the strings and brass instruments. How would you guys approach this mixing process?

That's very interesting. I've also been experimenting with something similar, although I've been mostly trying to use saturation, moreso on CSS because I think the tone is darker than CSB. I found simply EQing didn't satisfy me as much as due to the darker tone, the frequency content was duller to begin with. Perhaps a combination of both techniques might be the answer? Would you mind sharing the mic settings you've used here so we can have a look at this further?
 

ricoderks

Active Member
That's very interesting. I've also been experimenting with something similar, although I've been mostly trying to use saturation, moreso on CSS because I think the tone is darker than CSB. I found simply EQing didn't satisfy me as much as due to the darker tone, the frequency content was duller to begin with. Perhaps a combination of both techniques might be the answer? Would you mind sharing the mic settings you've used here so we can have a look at this further?
Interesting! Yes. I will upload some screenshots and values when i get back in the studio next week.
 

ridgero

Member
Hi everyone, I know this is not really the right place to post this but since it's a specific question to CSB I thought i put it here anyway. I'm looking for tips to mix the brass with the CSS strings. I'm not very fond of the standard mix positions. So I clicked close, tree and room mics on and fiddled around with them to try to make them sound more Williams-ish... I recreated a little part from Benny Oschmann's track as reference. Then I EQ-ed most of the strings and brass instruments. How would you guys approach this mixing process?

Thanks for sharing your nice little composition, I like it very much. Whats your approach, when composing for Brass? I always end up in a mess :D
 
Hi everyone, I know this is not really the right place to post this but since it's a specific question to CSB I thought i put it here anyway. I'm looking for tips to mix the brass with the CSS strings. I'm not very fond of the standard mix positions. So I clicked close, tree and room mics on and fiddled around with them to try to make them sound more Williams-ish... I recreated a little part from Benny Oschmann's track as reference. Then I EQ-ed most of the strings and brass instruments. How would you guys approach this mixing process?

Good job, Rico! Especially the Horns are really close to the tone of the original recording. Is there any specific reason, why you left out the woodwinds textures starting at ~00:40? Although they are pretty much in the background in the recording, they are very important for the orchestration here.

I agree with all the high praises here: CSB not only sounds absolutely fantastic, it is also very easy to use and the perfect companion to CSS. Can't wait for CSW!
 

ChrisSiuMusic

Senior Member
Hi everyone, I know this is not really the right place to post this but since it's a specific question to CSB I thought i put it here anyway. I'm looking for tips to mix the brass with the CSS strings. I'm not very fond of the standard mix positions. So I clicked close, tree and room mics on and fiddled around with them to try to make them sound more Williams-ish... I recreated a little part from Benny Oschmann's track as reference. Then I EQ-ed most of the strings and brass instruments. How would you guys approach this mixing process?

Great job man. What I do is engage the 'mix' position throughout, but when it comes to mixing, I'll treat it with EQ whenever needed.
 

ricoderks

Active Member
Thanks for sharing your nice little composition, I like it very much. Whats your approach, when composing for Brass? I always end up in a mess :D
I'm still figuring that out for myself. But this was not my composition. It is from Benny Oschmann.
I think he listened to a lot of Williams and Powell scores :)

Good job, Rico! Especially the Horns are really close to the tone of the original recording. Is there any specific reason, why you left out the woodwinds textures starting at ~00:40? Although they are pretty much in the background in the recording, they are very important for the orchestration here.

I agree with all the high praises here: CSB not only sounds absolutely fantastic, it is also very easy to use and the perfect companion to CSS. Can't wait for CSW!
Hi Benny!
Vielen dank! All credits to you ofcourse! I'm having a hard time mixing these samples to sound as close to the original. My version sounds way to bright with a touch of nasal resonances i think... CSS/CSB sounds very warm around that 400-500 hz range. Too warm for this kind of music i think. Also the panning is not quite right. I'm currently trying to transcribe by ear so that's why I probably forgot that woodwind texture. I know you uploaded the score on your website but I thought it would be fun to try to recreate the music without it. See how close i can get...
I absolutely love the CSS series so far and am looking forward to CSW (and P) aswell!

Great job man. What I do is engage the 'mix' position throughout, but when it comes to mixing, I'll treat it with EQ whenever needed.
For most purposes i'll do too. However I don't really like the mix patch on the brass. It sounds too much in your face for me and i'm tryiing to place them behind the strings with that punchy williams trumpet attack sound. I did a 3 hours walk this morning and something crossed my mind. I think the right approach would be to use all 3 mixes on strings and brass and use 1 eq for all the decca tree mixes and 1 eq for all the room mic positions to make them sound more like i want. That way the whole frequency spectrum of that "1" mic positions is applied to the whole orchestra. Not violins 1 only for example. Then you can tweak the close mics however you'd like. That's how it would be done in real life i think. But that's the whole point of my previous post. I'm really not sure how to approach this since im not a mixer/sound guru haha.

Thanks for your comments all!

Rico
 

AoiichiNiiSan

New Member
Interesting! Yes. I will upload some screenshots and values when i get back in the studio next week.
Nice! Thank you Rico. This'll be interesting to mess around with. Likewise I'll share the Saturation settings I've been using when I can get back to my workstation after the weekend.
 
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