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Cinematic Studio Brass Articulation Management?

Land of Missing Parts

flibbertigibbet
What do you mean regarding "delay compensation"?
CSS and CSB have legatos that are long enough to create a noticeable delay, ranging 100-500ms depending on the instrument (since it can't begin the legato transition until it knows what note comes next).

A few folks on this forum have done some scripting using a variety of means, such as NoamL's Thanos script for Logic's Scripter and Caleb's solution for Reaper, to automatically compensate for the delay so it can line up with the beats on a click, though these only work in playback. As far as I can tell it's not possible to implement for live playing.
 

cqd

Active Member
Is the delay on the brass as bad as it is on CSS?..Maybe it's just down to the nature of brass, but I don't find it anywhere near as bad as with the strings..
 

Scamper

Sample Hooter
Right, according to the manuals, the legatos in CSS have a delay ranging from about 100 (Fast) to 333ms (Slow) and in CSB it is 100 (Slow) to 230ms (Medium) (for trumpets, the highest is 180ms). Both have a delay of 60ms for the short notes.
 

Peter Schwartz

Senior Member
CSS and CSB have legatos that are long enough to create a noticeable delay, ranging 100-500ms depending on the instrument (since it can't begin the legato transition until it knows what note comes next).............
Ah, OK. No, it's not possible to implement that kind of thing for live playing. It would require a Script (or other means) that literally "predict the future".
 

thesteelydane

Senior Member
I know its frustrating to a lot of people, but I wish we could stop complaining about the delay in CSS, or describing it as a problem, when its LITERALLY the reason it sounds so good. You just have to learn to play a bit ahead of the beat, which is something easily learned with practice, and very much akin to playing a slow responding instrument in real life.

No disrespect to anyone, I know its a pain, but if we want that realism and sound, that's just the price we have to pay.

Apart from that, if anyone can write a script that predicts the future, I'm sure it will be @Peter Schwartz ;)
 
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thesteelydane

Senior Member
I agree with the sentiment, but in this particular thread I don't think anyone's complaining. We're just talking about practical ways to manage the delay.
My bad if it came across that way - I've just never felt a need to manage it, I just play things in so they fit. I can see that doesn't work if you need the notation to be right, for example...
 

Symfoniq

Senior Member
I know its frustrating to a lot of people, but I wish we could stop complaining about the delay in CSS, or describing it as a problem, when its LITERALLY the reason it sounds so good. You just have to learn to play a bit ahead of the beat, which is something easily learned with practice, and very much akin to playing a slow responding instrument in real life.

No disrespect to anyone, I know its a pain, but if we want that realism and sound, that's just the price we have to pay.
@Peter Schwartz ;)
+1

The legato delay does indeed make for a far better sound. I've actually removed the "Classic Legato" patches from my template because they just don't sound nearly as good as the delayed patches.

I hope Alex just keeps doing what he's been doing.
 

Land of Missing Parts

flibbertigibbet
I've actually removed the "Classic Legato" patches from my template because they just don't sound nearly as good as the delayed patches.
I actually use the classic legato for playing in the performance. Then I drag that midi region into another duplicate instrument track, but with the full legato and scripting to compensate for the delay. With the scripting, it retains all of the timings from my live playing, but I don't have to deal with any delays. However, I'm currently working on something where I need to input it as notation.

Please don't mistake discussion of scripting delay compensation for a debate about whether there should be a delayed legato at all. We already agree with the point you are making. Perhaps you should re-read the thread to see what is actually being discussed.
 
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Land of Missing Parts

flibbertigibbet
Is the delay on the brass as bad as it is on CSS?..Maybe it's just down to the nature of brass, but I don't find it anywhere near as bad as with the strings..
I just got CSB and haven't spent enough time with it to say for sure. But my first impression is that you can play things in and operate without scripting to compensate for the delay, since the delay isn't as noticeable. If you go by the length in milliseconds, the delays are certainly shorter than CSS, though the trombones still have considerable delay.

Unlike CSS, I haven't seen a lot of talk about how to deal with CSB delay, and Alex didn't include a classic legato option. I'm sure there will eventually be some scripting to compensate for the delay in CSB and I'll probably adopt that once it's available, and use the non-legato sustains for playing in midi (in place of classic legato).
 
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