darthdeus
Member
After yet another cycle of trying out different DAWs I feel more and more uncertain as I move on. Any advice is appreciated! Also sorry for another "help me pick a DAW" thread, but I feel like I have specific enough idea of what I want that maybe that justifies it? Also sorry for the long post.
My preferences:
- Composing mainly game soundtracks/trailers, for my own games. But I'm also interested in goofing around in various other styles, from souleless corporate music to fancy bombastic orchestral tracks to crazy EDM. I want to "try it all".
- MIDI is the God, I want to both program MIDI by hand and record MIDI from a keyboard. The thing I care most about is working with MIDI as efficiently and comfortably as possible.
- I don't think I care about a builtin score editor, at least having tried it in Cubase and Studio One it just feels way slower than MIDI.
- I don't care about audio and recording at all. The only instrument I play is the piano, and I'm happy doing that via MIDI.
- I'll never work with a band or a guitar or vocals or any other musicians. The only time I'd record something is to stick it in a synth like Omni and do sacrilegious processing on it. I don't care about having 8 microphones streaming into my DAW.
- I don't ever want to do anything live.
- I don't ever want to work with a studio, in a studio, or with other people. I just sit in my room alone and produce music for myself. I don't care about interacting with anyone or being compatible with anything.
- I don't care about money - within reason, 500eur for Cubase is fine, 2000 for Pro Tools is not.
- I don't care about builtin instruments, as I've already bought "everything" I need. Already got a bunch of Kontakt stuff, orchestral libraries, synths, Komplete, etc..
- I really hate how Reaper looks both on Windows and Mac. I know it should be the answer, and I thought it would be better than on Windows, but I just can't get over how ugly the UI is. No I don't care about themes, I've tried a bunch of them, it just looks ugly. I also tried the "full Windows theme" that made all Windows look ugly just to make Reaper look better, still couldn't use it. Sorry :(
- I'm not looking to make a career out of this. It's mainly a hobby for me (I'm a programmer), and if it turns out I can make some money out of this, it wouldn't be "work at a studio and use what I've learned". I'm playing around with the idea of just making some stuff for stock music libraries just to try it out, but again, this is not my "get rich quick" plan, it's more of a "this could be interesting".
- Ideally I'd want to work a little bit with video for composing stuff for trailers (my own, as said before, I don't work with other people), and I have no intention of scoring movies. But I'm happy to e.g. use a DAW with no video support if there are advantages for regular composing/producing.
- I don't care that much about "fast", my computer is beefy enough.
- Both Windows and Mac is fine, but I guess this is only a matter of Logic Pro X?
DAWs I have and tried (Note I tried to force myself to complete a few tracks in most DAWs just to try them out ... I definitely haven't done it super in depth in all of them, but here's my impressions so far):
- Cubase 10.5 Elements (tried Pro a few times at other people's computers too) - At the moment probably my favorite. I like a lot of the features, though a lot of times it feels like Bitwig/Studio One are just way less annoying to do things in. For example having Quantize split in at least 3 places seems just insane (e.g. Advanced Quantize only accessible via menu). I like how Cubase handles effects though, especially if I just want something quick/dirty. I also don't really like the e-Licenser since I use two computers daily. On the other hand, I'm extremely tempted by all the MIDI FX, learning to use chord tracks, expression maps, and a bunch of other things Cubase just "has" that others DAWs seem to only approach partly. Lastly, some of the UI quirks (especially on Windows) seem insane, not even the top bar imitating the Mac menu bar, but so many weird UI quirks.
- Bitwig 3 (16 track) - I really like how Bitwig lets me run VSTs in a separate process so when they crash/lag it doesn't affect me, and I like how modern the UI is, how a lot of things make sense and a lot of the UI choices. Though MIDI feels strictly worse than in Cubase, and then there's a ton of small things like Komplete Kontrol integration being somewhat bad (I know there's the 3rd party plugin, but just today it totally derped on me), and just in general I feel that I'll never use a lot of what Bitwig has builtin (all the modulation stuff, fancy builtin effects/synths/instruments and Grid and stuff).
- Studio One 5 Artist (tried Pro tool) - Somehow this seems like it's supposed to be the answer, but there's so many minor things I really dislike, e.g. not being able to middle-mouse drag to move around. Or the fact that somehow it crashes way more than any other DAW I've tried (not a huge deal, but seems consistent). There's also a few weird things which I find confusing, e.g. being able to delete a track while the instrument remains loaded in memory. I'm also not a fan of their piano roll, but I guess that's something we can pick on with any DAW.
- Logic Pro X (trial running) - Still trying to figure out what I think about Logic. As an Apple fan I'm almosted tempted to say that Logic is "too Apple"? In the sense of things being slightly less efficient for the sake of being nicer.
DAWs I don't really consider:
- FL Studio - I tried really hard to like FL, but the way it handles MIDI in VST plugins seems insane. Every other DAW can auto-bind modwheel/expression in Kontakt, FL somehow can't. MIDI learn is extremely weird too (I know you can use the "Link Parameter" thing, but it's just way more inconvenient than any other DAW).
- Pro Tools - Everyone says how great it is at recording and audio, I don't care about either.
- Ableton Live - I don't like the session view and I don't care about doing anything live.
- Cakewalk - Every time I tried it it felt like it's trying to just clone Cubase including all of it's UI and icons, and I don't really trust Bandlab giving it away for free.
- Reason - People joke all the time that "Reason is the DAW you use if you don't know what a DAW is". It seems a lot of its power comes from the builtin stuff, which I don't care about, as I already have enough of my own instruments. I also remember it didn't even have multitrack MIDI editing a few years ago.
---
I guess my biggest question is about the more advanced stuff I haven't had much time to evalute yet, especially since I only have the shitty licenses of each of the DAWs. For example, how do MIDI effects compare between Cubase, Bitwig, Studio One and Logic?
I'm also not sure how useful these advanced MIDI things actually are. Do people end up using chord tracks with arpeggiators and midi delays and stuff, or is it just shiny stuff that ultimately ends up being useless? I know the real answer is "just try it and see what works for you", but I'd much prefer knowing the opinions of people using these things who either figured out it's the best thing ever, or that it's ultimately useless.
If I had a gun pointed to my head and had to choose I'd probably buy Cubase, but at the same time I feel that I'd need that gun pointed to my head to make that decision, especially considering the e-Licenser. But maybe it's worth it? Or is it?
My preferences:
- Composing mainly game soundtracks/trailers, for my own games. But I'm also interested in goofing around in various other styles, from souleless corporate music to fancy bombastic orchestral tracks to crazy EDM. I want to "try it all".
- MIDI is the God, I want to both program MIDI by hand and record MIDI from a keyboard. The thing I care most about is working with MIDI as efficiently and comfortably as possible.
- I don't think I care about a builtin score editor, at least having tried it in Cubase and Studio One it just feels way slower than MIDI.
- I don't care about audio and recording at all. The only instrument I play is the piano, and I'm happy doing that via MIDI.
- I'll never work with a band or a guitar or vocals or any other musicians. The only time I'd record something is to stick it in a synth like Omni and do sacrilegious processing on it. I don't care about having 8 microphones streaming into my DAW.
- I don't ever want to do anything live.
- I don't ever want to work with a studio, in a studio, or with other people. I just sit in my room alone and produce music for myself. I don't care about interacting with anyone or being compatible with anything.
- I don't care about money - within reason, 500eur for Cubase is fine, 2000 for Pro Tools is not.
- I don't care about builtin instruments, as I've already bought "everything" I need. Already got a bunch of Kontakt stuff, orchestral libraries, synths, Komplete, etc..
- I really hate how Reaper looks both on Windows and Mac. I know it should be the answer, and I thought it would be better than on Windows, but I just can't get over how ugly the UI is. No I don't care about themes, I've tried a bunch of them, it just looks ugly. I also tried the "full Windows theme" that made all Windows look ugly just to make Reaper look better, still couldn't use it. Sorry :(
- I'm not looking to make a career out of this. It's mainly a hobby for me (I'm a programmer), and if it turns out I can make some money out of this, it wouldn't be "work at a studio and use what I've learned". I'm playing around with the idea of just making some stuff for stock music libraries just to try it out, but again, this is not my "get rich quick" plan, it's more of a "this could be interesting".
- Ideally I'd want to work a little bit with video for composing stuff for trailers (my own, as said before, I don't work with other people), and I have no intention of scoring movies. But I'm happy to e.g. use a DAW with no video support if there are advantages for regular composing/producing.
- I don't care that much about "fast", my computer is beefy enough.
- Both Windows and Mac is fine, but I guess this is only a matter of Logic Pro X?
DAWs I have and tried (Note I tried to force myself to complete a few tracks in most DAWs just to try them out ... I definitely haven't done it super in depth in all of them, but here's my impressions so far):
- Cubase 10.5 Elements (tried Pro a few times at other people's computers too) - At the moment probably my favorite. I like a lot of the features, though a lot of times it feels like Bitwig/Studio One are just way less annoying to do things in. For example having Quantize split in at least 3 places seems just insane (e.g. Advanced Quantize only accessible via menu). I like how Cubase handles effects though, especially if I just want something quick/dirty. I also don't really like the e-Licenser since I use two computers daily. On the other hand, I'm extremely tempted by all the MIDI FX, learning to use chord tracks, expression maps, and a bunch of other things Cubase just "has" that others DAWs seem to only approach partly. Lastly, some of the UI quirks (especially on Windows) seem insane, not even the top bar imitating the Mac menu bar, but so many weird UI quirks.
- Bitwig 3 (16 track) - I really like how Bitwig lets me run VSTs in a separate process so when they crash/lag it doesn't affect me, and I like how modern the UI is, how a lot of things make sense and a lot of the UI choices. Though MIDI feels strictly worse than in Cubase, and then there's a ton of small things like Komplete Kontrol integration being somewhat bad (I know there's the 3rd party plugin, but just today it totally derped on me), and just in general I feel that I'll never use a lot of what Bitwig has builtin (all the modulation stuff, fancy builtin effects/synths/instruments and Grid and stuff).
- Studio One 5 Artist (tried Pro tool) - Somehow this seems like it's supposed to be the answer, but there's so many minor things I really dislike, e.g. not being able to middle-mouse drag to move around. Or the fact that somehow it crashes way more than any other DAW I've tried (not a huge deal, but seems consistent). There's also a few weird things which I find confusing, e.g. being able to delete a track while the instrument remains loaded in memory. I'm also not a fan of their piano roll, but I guess that's something we can pick on with any DAW.
- Logic Pro X (trial running) - Still trying to figure out what I think about Logic. As an Apple fan I'm almosted tempted to say that Logic is "too Apple"? In the sense of things being slightly less efficient for the sake of being nicer.
DAWs I don't really consider:
- FL Studio - I tried really hard to like FL, but the way it handles MIDI in VST plugins seems insane. Every other DAW can auto-bind modwheel/expression in Kontakt, FL somehow can't. MIDI learn is extremely weird too (I know you can use the "Link Parameter" thing, but it's just way more inconvenient than any other DAW).
- Pro Tools - Everyone says how great it is at recording and audio, I don't care about either.
- Ableton Live - I don't like the session view and I don't care about doing anything live.
- Cakewalk - Every time I tried it it felt like it's trying to just clone Cubase including all of it's UI and icons, and I don't really trust Bandlab giving it away for free.
- Reason - People joke all the time that "Reason is the DAW you use if you don't know what a DAW is". It seems a lot of its power comes from the builtin stuff, which I don't care about, as I already have enough of my own instruments. I also remember it didn't even have multitrack MIDI editing a few years ago.
---
I guess my biggest question is about the more advanced stuff I haven't had much time to evalute yet, especially since I only have the shitty licenses of each of the DAWs. For example, how do MIDI effects compare between Cubase, Bitwig, Studio One and Logic?
I'm also not sure how useful these advanced MIDI things actually are. Do people end up using chord tracks with arpeggiators and midi delays and stuff, or is it just shiny stuff that ultimately ends up being useless? I know the real answer is "just try it and see what works for you", but I'd much prefer knowing the opinions of people using these things who either figured out it's the best thing ever, or that it's ultimately useless.
If I had a gun pointed to my head and had to choose I'd probably buy Cubase, but at the same time I feel that I'd need that gun pointed to my head to make that decision, especially considering the e-Licenser. But maybe it's worth it? Or is it?