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Calling all Developers for their opinion: Is this a fair trade practice?

premjj

Active Member
Hi

Posting this as a request for opinions from the developers on this forum.

The Komplete 11 Ultimate purchase sets me up for over 500Gb worth of downloads. Since I don't have the need for all the instruments immediately, and also don't have that much free HDD space available right now, I would like to download and audition and then retain/remove the library as applicable.

However, Native Access keeps deleting all the installers after installation !! Effectively, 100s of GB worth of paid bandwidth is being wasted. Not to mention the several days worth of time taken to download these installers.

Should I need to reinstall a few of these libraries (based on some urgent project deadline) then I will need to redownload the installer all over again.

NI support replies that to solve this problem I can "purchase" a separate HDD with the installers at additional cost (add international shipping to that)!!

Am I missing something here?

How is a Developer justified in deleting the installation files for a software that I have just purchased ?? Is this the accepted norm in the VI space now ?

Extending this as an example to say, Toontrack: If I download, install and then remove Superior Drummer 3 am I expected to redownload the entire 230GBs of data all over again when I am ready for a reinstall ??

Can other developers please comment/advise on this practice by NI and how justified it is?

Thanks
 
M

mac

Guest
That seems strange. In Native Access, I have the option of downloading and installing each komplete product separately (I have several products in my 'not installed' section for example). Can you not do that?
 

EvilDragon

KSP Wizard
Yes, you can install each product separately, not all in one go.

Retaining downloaded installers will be an option in a future NA update.


As far as your Toontrack example - as you might know, they don't delete installers after downloading them, but their download manager does tell you that this stuff is not necessary anymore after installing, and prompts you if you want to remove it. Which is definitely nicer than the way NA is currently handling it.
 

mc_deli

n trepreneur
Toontrack Product Manager is stunningly good.
NI should be ashamed.
(I did update to K5.7.1 and NA with no problems the other week to be fair)
 

Quasar

Senior Member
Hi

Posting this as a request for opinions from the developers on this forum.

The Komplete 11 Ultimate purchase sets me up for over 500Gb worth of downloads. Since I don't have the need for all the instruments immediately, and also don't have that much free HDD space available right now, I would like to download and audition and then retain/remove the library as applicable.

However, Native Access keeps deleting all the installers after installation !! Effectively, 100s of GB worth of paid bandwidth is being wasted. Not to mention the several days worth of time taken to download these installers.

Should I need to reinstall a few of these libraries (based on some urgent project deadline) then I will need to redownload the installer all over again.

NI support replies that to solve this problem I can "purchase" a separate HDD with the installers at additional cost (add international shipping to that)!!

Am I missing something here?

How is a Developer justified in deleting the installation files for a software that I have just purchased ?? Is this the accepted norm in the VI space now ?

Extending this as an example to say, Toontrack: If I download, install and then remove Superior Drummer 3 am I expected to redownload the entire 230GBs of data all over again when I am ready for a reinstall ??

Can other developers please comment/advise on this practice by NI and how justified it is?

Thanks
In short, Native Access has been a (well-documented) travesty on a number of levels, and one of the casualties is your ability to freely install/uninstall in the way you say you want to without having to worry about bandwidth constraints.

If ED is correct and they one day "fix" this (a utility that wasn't broken until NI proactively broke it), all the better. But it appears to be a long road back to get even some of the user-friendly functionality we once took for granted with the old Service Center.
 

procreative

Senior Member
If you can afford a backup drive, its possible to point the installation to that. Then you can copy over the libraries you want to keep and go back into NA and change the installation directory to where it now exists. That way you can keep a backup of everything and just have what you actually want to use on your main drive.
 

Michael Antrum

Only the good die young....
If you can afford a backup drive, its possible to point the installation to that. Then you can copy over the libraries you want to keep and go back into NA and change the installation directory to where it now exists. That way you can keep a backup of everything and just have what you actually want to use on your main drive.
well that won’t work as if you want to install the library again afterwards it will force you to download it again in full, which makes the backup a waste of time.

However, I’m sure they’ll fix it as it a bit stupid as it is now.
 

j_kranz

Active Member
There's a mildy convoluted way to download the .iso file directly and save it... NI has some steps for that here (note that both NA and the older 'downloader' gives you the .toc file to look at when downloading a product):

Mac
Windows
 

Nick Batzdorf

Moderator
Moderator
premjj, are you in India? In the US - and I assume Europe - the only paid bandwidth is mobile.

My guess is that it never occurred to them.
 

procreative

Senior Member
well that won’t work as if you want to install the library again afterwards it will force you to download it again in full, which makes the backup a waste of time.

However, I’m sure they’ll fix it as it a bit stupid as it is now.
Well unless the libraries only open in Kontakt 5.6.8, there is a workaround. If you have a separate install of 5.6.6 (you can do this by renaming the newer one Kontakt 5.6.8 or 5.7 etc (then once done switch them back so the newer one is labelled Kontakt 5 and the older one 5.6.6), you can re-add the library. Service Center remembers the installations even if the sample data has been removed.
 

JonSolo

Not Han's Brother
I am not the sort to typically complain about this sort of thing, but I do believe we should ALWAYS have the option to log in somewhere to get our software or updates and not just lame installers. I am happy Continua gives me the option to keep my zip files...but really, links work just fine.
 
OP
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premjj

Active Member
That seems strange. In Native Access, I have the option of downloading and installing each komplete product separately (I have several products in my 'not installed' section for example). Can you not do that?
It would still come to the same.

My point was that either way I choose to install it, one at a time or all in one go, Native Access will keep deleting all the installers without a warning.

Session Horns Pro is 30GB.
Sessions Strings Pro is 48GB.
Emotive Strings is 28 GB.
Action Strings is 14 GB.

That's easily over 100GB.

There are perfectly plausible/multiple scenarios where a user may need to reinstall one or more libraries again, and that too at short notice. The opportunity cost of not having the installation files available immediately could be very high.

How does NI add value to its customers through this policy?

Don't wish to tag anyone directly without consent, but am really keen to have other developers pitch in with their opinion on this.
 

novaburst

Senior Member
Slow day composing, eh?

People whine about anything these days.
I believe the thread he's a valued point, I want to commit my self to one of the NI 50% sale offer , but don't want to spend time reinstalling every thing after NA decides to delete them.

If some kind person can tell me how I may avoid this issue I would be very great full.
 

Alex Fraser

Senior Member
To play devils advocate..
1. Download and store your NI installer files.
2. Come back to reinstall product a year or so later.
3. Find that the installer isn't the latest version/doesn't work and you need to hit up Native Access anyway for an update...
 

Dominik Raab

Active Member
Am I missing something here? Granted, I only have Komplete 7, but every time I transitioned to a new computer, I could use the sample content from my old hard-drive and did not have to download the full library again. I effectively need neither an installer nor a huge download to move my NI libraries to a new computer with a freshly installed copy of Windows on it.

If some instruments included in 11 changed their behaviour, that's shit, and I feel you. I've never made that experience with NI software, however. Or any other content I own. There was always some kind of workaround (sometimes obvious, sometimes not) that allowed me to use my original installation.
 

novaburst

Senior Member
Well I am not sure what's going on or I have missed the point entirely........ I just purchased a 50% deal from NI used NA to install, and that was that.

showed up in the library and now I am using it. so what have I missed here or what is the issue.
 
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rrichard63

Perpetual Novice
Well I am not sure what's going on or I have missed the point entirely........ I just purchased a 50% deal from NI used NA to install, and that was that. ...
This is understandable. Apparently, you only have problems in specific situations. Having tried to follow multiple threads on Native Access and Kontakt beginning with 5.6.8 for weeks now, I'm still not clear what those situations are. But they exist and people encounter them.
 
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