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Building sections from solo patches

Discussion in 'SAMPLE Talk' started by Virtual Virgin, Feb 12, 2018.

  1. Virtual Virgin

    Virtual Virgin Senior Member

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    I am asking here both in general for techniques on building sections from solo patches, and also for specific techniques for doing this with Sample Modeling brass.

    I am quite into the Sample Modeling library but I run into trouble with the tone of unisons. I find the sound of Spitfire's Symphonic Brass a2 and a6 patches (specifically the horns) to be incisive and would like to get Sample Modeling to compete as it is such an important sound to have in the palette. I could use both in the same piece obviously, but I am a stickler for consistency.
     
  2. angeruroth

    angeruroth Active Member

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    I tried that once, using EWSO. The positioning is a lot of work, and IMHO it's very important to automate variations, at least speed, strength and timbre, but can be done.
    Said that, it is very cpu/ram intense, and in my case the effort was not worth it until I added a soft layer with other lib.
    Good luck!
     
  3. Casiquire

    Casiquire Senior Member

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    For the most part I don't think it works. Solo playing is quite different from group playing. I'll occasionally hear some success with it but it's few and far between, far more common to see it come out poorly
     
  4. OP
    OP
    Virtual Virgin

    Virtual Virgin Senior Member

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    Jul 7, 2017
    In this case I will playing all the parts in separately, not just cloning the unisons.
     
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  5. LHall

    LHall Senior Member

    For brass and winds, this is almost the only way I ever work. I use nearly exclusively the SM/AM products for these sections. For the SM brass, be sure to use the "unison" patches. You can easily have for instance 4 trombone parts without any phase or tone issues whatsoever. I like to put them all in Virtual Sound Stage 2 for positioning and basic space. But yes - play each part separately. Don't just clone them. There are so many tiny variables from track to track that are essential to make it sound real. Two live players never, ever, ever play a unison exactly the same to matter how good they are. Remember, group playing is always made up of several solo players!
     
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  6. Casiquire

    Casiquire Senior Member

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    Strongly agreed.

    To be clear, I'm referring to strings in particular. Brass and winds are a different story. As far as strings though I believe players react to one another and have a different style of playing depending on the size of the ensemble. You see different libraries doing different things to handle this fact, like how Hollywood Strings recorded their divisi section by using a separate microphone instead of recording a smaller section, and how Dimension Strings recorded each player in isolation but everyone was playing in unison. I'm not sure how LASS did so well in this department, but that team is really clever and their strategy seemed to work out well.

    Also most solo string libraries are really looking to capture the sound of a soloist. They tend to stick out a bit in a mix because of their style of playing. Think of the difference between a solo operatic aria performance and a singer in a choir. A choir vocalist tries to blend in with the singers around them. This same effect happens in a string section. A player might even use a different bow or different rosin between a solo part and the rest of a piece.

    Having said all that I recently heard some great success using SWAM strings, so perhaps a high level of customizability in a library is necessary to do this.
     
  7. OP
    OP
    Virtual Virgin

    Virtual Virgin Senior Member

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    Jul 7, 2017
    Yes, I'm not trying to make sections from solo strings, just using Spitfire sections so far in my orchestral mockups.

    My efforts are mostly with the brass section, given the sound of SM brass. I will be trying out SWAM instruments in the woodwinds (right now I'm using Spitfire Symphonic Winds). My issue is that I prefer the Spitfire a2's but not their solo patches!
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018 at 9:47 AM
    Casiquire likes this.
  8. Ihnoc

    Ihnoc Active Member

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    Jun 30, 2017
    In case you aren't exploiting it already, you can use the neighbour borrowing method to help provide some tonal difference from the same solo instruments. Input at a semitone higher (or two if the library is whole tone sampled) then use the pitch wheel or a shifter to push it back down. Do the reverse for a third instrument.

    Personally though, I have had limited millage with that and found just having the a2 patches or whatever easier to work with - dry libraries seem to work better with it.

    I totally understand where you are coming from with this because I feel the exact same way - I want to easily move between section size for chords etc and keep the character consistent. However, one recommendation that was made to me was, if you aren't making this music to be performed live, use the instrument that sounds right for the task - for example if the Spitfire a2 sounds right for the line despite it being there only being 3 horns, just use that.
     

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