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Budget Woodwinds Shootout!

Parsifal666

I don't even own a DAW, I'm just a troll.
Do you mean EW Hollywood Orchestral Woodwinds? Or Cinesamples' Hollywoodwinds?
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To be a contrarian regarding the last few recent posts about the East West library, I'm going to say do not buy Hollywood
That's funny I know folks whom make orchestral scores for cash that still use EW Hollywood WWs... including me. There are naff instruments and patches in that library, some just plain lame. There are others, like the bassoon, flute, piccolo, and low instruments and patches, that are excellent imo. I'm also a big fan of the Cor Anglais though that doesn't get a lot of fanfare here. More than worth the going price, but be sure to get Diamond or nothing... I hate the default Hollywood mic. I'm first to agree it's the weakest in the series. . but then again the rest of the series is pretty badass imo. And BTW you can be as contrary as you want on this issue but there are plenty of paid composers who will teach from experience.
 
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James H

01001000 01101001
Yes, I'd definitely scoop the HW now, especially the Diamond. It's a serious steal, and you can build ensembles yourself with that library all day money.
Yep, get Diamond whilst on sale.
I went with Gold and I'm stuck with it until they drop an upgrade sale. Sucks I can tell you
 

I like music

Senior Member
I heard that Infinite Woodwinds was coming out any day. I think the price-point will be quite good, too. Caught a demo somehow and was very impressed with what I heard.

If you can wait a tiny little bit, it wouldn't heard to hear what you make of it!
 
That's funny I know folks whom make orchestral scores for cash that still use EW Hollywood WWs... including me. There are naff instruments and patches in that library, some just plain lame. There are others, like the bassoon, flute, piccolo, and low instruments and patches, that are excellent imo. I'm also a big fan of the Co Anglais though that doesn't get a lot of fanfare here. More than worth the going price, but be sure to get Diamond or nothing... I hate the default Hollywood mic. I'm first to agree it's the weakest in the series. . but then again the rest of the series is pretty badass imo. And BTW you can be as contrary as you want on this issue but there are plenty of paid composers who will teach from experience.
Thank you for the rebuttal. My opinion is what it is -- just an opinion. :)
 

I like music

Senior Member
Aaron Venture has a demo of the flute on his soundcloud page:

Thank you! I heard another which was pretty impressive to my ears. In terms of getting the feeling of having the right articulations and energy, it was better than a lot of other stuff I'd heard. I believe they were due to be released any day now, so waiting with bated breath.
 

handz

Senior Member
That's funny I know folks whom make orchestral scores for cash that still use EW Hollywood WWs... including me. There are naff instruments and patches in that library, some just plain lame. There are others, like the bassoon, flute, piccolo, and low instruments and patches, that are excellent imo. I'm also a big fan of the Cor Anglais though that doesn't get a lot of fanfare here. More than worth the going price, but be sure to get Diamond or nothing... I hate the default Hollywood mic. I'm first to agree it's the weakest in the series. . but then again the rest of the series is pretty badass imo. And BTW you can be as contrary as you want on this issue but there are plenty of paid composers who will teach from experience.
While I was always being a fan of EW Hollywood series, there is no doubt that WW was the weakest part. Lots of complaints and programming issues. It was partially solved by the updates but still, I think that WW although its quite complexity and huge instrument count is not as good sounding as some other ww but for the price... its awesome :)
 

Land of Missing Parts

flibbertigibbet
I never trust those types of examples, as recently demonstrated in the Spitfire Studio series threads. Some libraries are just plain bad, but too many are brushed off because of improper programming.
That's a good point. I like when people post audio examples and I myself try to post them when I can. But it's true that they can be varying degrees of helpful or unhelpful, depending on how well programmed they are, and whether they were made in good faith, or made to confirm a point of view that a person wants to reinforce.
 

robgb

I was young once
Hi everyone,

I can't wait any longer for Cinematic Studio Woodwinds so I'm going to bite the bullet and buy some 'temporary' woodwinds this week! I know this has kind of been covered with various other threads, but always good to hear any more opinions on these....

Having gone around in circles in my search, it's come down to:

- Spitfire Studio Woodwinds

- VSL woodwinds vol 1 SE

- Cinesamples Woodwinds

As I have educational discount they all come in at around the same price (£100 + a bit)

Which would you go for for a classic John Williams sound?

Thanks,

J
If you have the full version of kontakt the legacy orchestral instruments are real find. There are number of woodwinds in there that sound very very good. Plus you can add SIPS and WIPS scripts to make them sound even better.
 

borisb2

Active Member
I never trust those types of examples, as recently demonstrated in the Spitfire Studio series threads. Some libraries are just plain bad, but too many are brushed off because of improper programming.
Hollywood WW have so many more patches and long articulations than shown in these (not good sounding) examples - and one doesn't need to rely for every single line ever played with WW 110% on legato by the way. Sometimes an expressive sustain - played the right way - does the trick with WW a lot better (less phasing)

I got SF Studio Brass .. their legato sounds like garbage mostly .. didnt do one track with these after buying but went back to Hollywood Brass (still saving for CSB though :P )
 
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re-peat

Senior Member
I never trust those types of examples, as recently demonstrated in the Spitfire Studio series threads. Some libraries are just plain bad, but too many are brushed off because of improper programming.
That's a good point. I like when people post audio examples and I myself try to post them when I can. But it's true that they can be varying degrees of helpful or unhelpful, depending on how well programmed they are, and whether they were made in good faith, or made to confirm a point of view that a person wants to reinforce.

If you’re referring to the examples I posted — and I have a feeling you both are —, allow me to underline again that every single one of them was as good as I or anyone else could make them given the time constraints imposed by the discussion and the quality of those libraries. Apart from the examples which were intended specifically to show the presence of bad samples or faulty programming, everything I posted gave a very honest and accurate idea of what the Studio Woodwinds & Brass sound and behave like in the hands of a pretty experienced musician — and one who has always had great sympathy and a strong sense of loyalty towards Spitfire — trying to make music with this product.

The proof is in the fact that … no one has posted anything better since (or before). I mean, think about it: not a single soul has been able to post a single minute of good-sounding Studio Series music. You’d think that, with all the outrage, offense and indignation which my remarks caused, people would jump at the chance to be able to silence me and stamp me into the ground by posting a really good-sounding Studio Series example, but … no one has.

And no one ever will either, I’m sure of it. You don’t think, surely, that I was prepared to go to all that trouble and effort AND allowed an avalanche of viciousness and infantile mockery to be poured over me, if I wasn’t absolutely, totally and utterly convinced of what I have been saying?

It’s been three weeks since those spirited discussions, and I understand that quite a number of people purchased part or all of the Studio Series — some of them actually did so after hearing my audio examples — and yet for some reason, not one of these people has posted anything that refutes anything I wrote. Isn’t that telling? They all claim how pleased they are with these products and how absolutely wonderful these things sound, and they rarely fail to imply how ridiculously wrong I was about the whole thing, but for some reason, no one seems to be able or willing to go the extra step and post anything that confirms any of that. There is, to this day, not a single minute of SStWW music online (and the Brass and Strings aren't exactly celebrated with many audible examples of user enthusiasm either) that forces me to rethink any of my opinions on these libraries.

I am sorry, but I happen to recognise a problematic library when I have one under my fingers and, this side of Kirk Hunter's stuff, few are as problematic as the ones that make up the Studio Series.

_
 
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DarkestShadow

Senior Member
I never trust those types of examples, as recently demonstrated in the Spitfire Studio series threads. Some libraries are just plain bad, but too many are brushed off because of improper programming.
What do you trust then? :P If someone is playing around with it on a walkthrough they could just be sloppy too. Official walkthrough and demo examples can be massaged to death to sound good.
Maybe examples with the exact midi data showing? Although every library reacts differently to midi curves.
One a subtle level there is certainly room for such influences but some libraries are just to bad for the person working with them to be at fault (for instance some of the legato in EW's HWW or HZ Strings which I both posted examples for in the past).
If legato sounds disconnected and bumpy there is hardly a way for this to be due to midi programming. You'd really have to consciously make totally crazy midi curves with the intent of screwing up the library. Well, here we'd be in conspiracy territory.
 

Parsifal666

I don't even own a DAW, I'm just a troll.
If you’re referring to the examples I posted — and I have a feeling you both are —, allow me to underline again that every single one of them was as good as I or anyone else could make them given the time constraints imposed by the discussion and the quality of those libraries. Apart from the examples which were intended specifically to show the presence of bad samples or faulty programming, everything I posted gave a very honest and accurate idea of what the Studio Woodwinds & Brass sound and behave like in the hands of a pretty experienced musician — and one who has always had great sympathy and a strong sense of loyalty towards Spitfire — trying to make music with this product.

The proof is in the fact that … no one has posted anything better since (or before). I mean, think about it: not a single soul has been able to post a single minute of good-sounding Studio Series music. You’d think that, with all the outrage, offense and indignation which my remarks caused, people would jump at the chance to be able to silence me and stamp me into the ground by posting a really good-sounding Studio Series example, but … no one has.

And no one ever will either, I’m sure of it. You don’t think, surely, that I was prepared to go to all that trouble and effort AND allowed an avalanche of viciousness and infantile mockery to be poured over me, if I wasn’t absolutely, totally and utterly convinced of what I have been saying?

It’s been three weeks since those spirited discussions, and I understand that quite a number of people purchased part or all of the Studio Series — some of them actually did so after hearing my audio examples — and yet for some reason, not one of these people has posted anything that refutes anything I wrote. Isn’t that telling? They all claim how pleased they are with these products and how absolutely wonderful these things sound, and they rarely fail to imply how ridiculously wrong I was about the whole thing, but for some reason, no one seems to be able or willing to go the extra step and post anything that confirms any of that. There is, to this day, not a single minute of SStWW music online (and the Brass and Strings aren't exactly celebrated with many audible examples of user enthusiasm either) that forces me to rethink any of my opinions on these libraries.

I am sorry, but I happen to recognise a problematic library when I have one under my fingers and, this side of Kirk Hunter's stuff, few are as problematic as the ones that make up the Studio Series.

_
I only didn't post any examples because I abysmally suck. I have already written three pieces for woodwinds and brass since buying the SA Studios of those products and even though the compositions themselves suck I couldn't be happier with the pieces as mockups. That in itself will tell you, despite the library's flaws (which every library has, no matter how great they're trumpeted here) in my opinion SStWWs can be very inspiring and thus worth getting. Forget the Robo-Dweeb tech complaints (honestly not singling you out at all, re-peat); how about instead working on getting as great a sound as possible with the lib you have whilst writing your brains out and getting better in those areas.

Again, buy the Pro version of SStWWs, otherwise stay home. Or, better yet, save your money and learn a LOT more about composition and especially writing for midi instruments, plus even basic engineering...

I should mention that I buy libraries mostly just to both inspire me to composer and give me different perspectives and options. SStWWs more than fulfilled that, same with the Brass from that lib. Three pieces in three weeks (averaging three and a half minutes each, so this isn't an eight bar loopfest I'm talking here...) do the math. I'd have to say that's pretty fucking inspired.

People, if you want a really good woodwind library get Berlin next time OT has a sale. That one even re-peat seems to take it easy on (not saying much, as generally he can be pretty scathing when it comes to ww libraries).

Disclaimer: re-peat is generally a seriously good and informed member whom is typically very worth listening to. And yes, he is responsible, through his audio, for helping me buy the SA Studio Series. As ironic as that is...I really liked a few of those samples lol!
 
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