Bohemian Series Expansions Thread, Violin Expansion 2 Improv Video

chlady

New Member
Vibrato is a literal signature of any string performer. You can usually tell who is playing what by their vibrato. We have a nice lyrical vibrato in the samples as part of the performance style we went for, but would i say it is as dominant as in her playing especially on the lower dynamics? Probably not as that would make it less flexible. Now if the question was if we can add that in the later season - the answer is sure - if there is enough interest we will. In the end it will be users who will vote on the next articulation/play style we work on in January. We will explain this way of working on Soul Capture as we go along, but the current plan is to do quarterly updates introducing more and more articulations and play styles as the seasons progress. We are very well aware that we will be working day and night to get this done in speedy manner, but that is why we have spent over a year developing a modular engine where we can add features to at a whim and not cause issues for us. This is very unique setup as we have developed this library with the core philosophy that version one is the base (very powerful one) to expand on.
Just downloaded the update the other day and it sounds great ! The legato and vibrato sound very good. Will there ever be an update to be able to adjust vibrato to taste as it can be a bit strong in some instances for certain pieces ? Right now it seems it is either on or off with a key switch to no vibrato correct ?
 
Just downloaded the update the other day and it sounds great ! The legato and vibrato sound very good. Will there ever be an update to be able to adjust vibrato to taste as it can be a bit strong in some instances for certain pieces ? Right now it seems it is either on or off with a key switch to no vibrato correct ?
Thanks for the kind words. To answer the question. This is one of the rare times where we have to say no. While we are crazy with the amount we are willing to sample, controllable vibrato can not be done well with this concept and would result in breaking the concept. We have been open about this since day one as the main issue is that crossfading sounds bad and so does virtual vibrato when put directly next to the rest of the samples captured this way. One of the main reasons Bohemian violin sounds so real and emotional is because all the samples are real and played in phrase and musical context and the moment you try to add something fake or not natural it will sound out of place and we avoid faking things where ever possible (hence almost 56k samples)

Thank you
Alex
 

chlady

New Member
Thanks for the kind words. To answer the question. This is one of the rare times where we have to say no. While we are crazy with the amount we are willing to sample, controllable vibrato can not be done well with this concept and would result in breaking the concept. We have been open about this since day one as the main issue is that crossfading sounds bad and so does virtual vibrato when put directly next to the rest of the samples captured this way. One of the main reasons Bohemian violin sounds so real and emotional is because all the samples are real and played in phrase and musical context and the moment you try to add something fake or not natural it will sound out of place and we avoid faking things where ever possible (hence almost 56k samples)

Thank you
Alex
Thanks for the quick reply , Thats what I figured but thought I would ask anyway. For most things the vibrato will be fine given that it is very emotional. If I need something less for vibrato I do have some other solo violin libs I can also use.
 

EvilDragon

KSP Wizard
You could always try hacking it with non-vib articulation and pitch bend, but that's probably not gonna sound exceptionally well...
 
Thanks for the quick reply , Thats what I figured but thought I would ask anyway. For most things the vibrato will be fine given that it is very emotional. If I need something less for vibrato I do have some other solo violin libs I can also use.
This is my biggest problem with the library. Vibrato is either off or over the top. I love the tone and concept but I will need another solo violin library additionally for gentler vib.
 
This is my biggest problem with the library. Vibrato is either off or over the top. I love the tone and concept but I will need another solo violin library additionally for gentler vib.
Any vst violin will have pros and cons.... and if you need another for that then use that one, whilst knowing you will run into its limitations too.

The bohemians big pro is the all ‘live’ unprocessed sampled and performer concept. Which means working around or working with that concept.
 

Guy Rowland

Senior Member
This is my biggest problem with the library. Vibrato is either off or over the top. I love the tone and concept but I will need another solo violin library additionally for gentler vib.
I don't agree with the asessment that the vibrato is "over the top" in a general sense. I've always understood this violin to be featured front and centre for passionate playing - that's what you're buying. It's not designed as a restrained player, or a first chair. You do get the different player modes which either accentuate or reign in that drama somewhat, but its essentially always pretty passionate.

Personally I'm very happy with this. The design of the library, not using any controllers but stitching together many natural arcs, is what gives it is power but also its limits. I guess they could now do 8 more variation layers of different strengths of vibrato, coming in quicker, later, easing back and forth and so on, and put that sample pool up towards the million mark, though I suspect Ondrej would be institutionalised on the way which could further hold up the 2035 relase of EXP 9.

The way I approach sample libraries in general is to try not to make them something they are not. If I need a line to blend in with a restrained chamber section, I won't be picking Bohemian. But if I need something really emotive and human front and centre, there's no other game in town.
 
The way I approach sample libraries in general is to try not to make them something they are not. If I need a line to blend in with a restrained chamber section, I won't be picking Bohemian. But if I need something really emotive and human front and centre, there's no other game in town.
Well put as far as I am concerned.
......And the 3d best option is to hire a real violin / viola / cello player ( of which there are several good here at vi- control with their own recording option)
Other then that, select the best vst for the job at hand.
 

jaketanner

Senior Member
So from what many are saying, this is the equivalent to the Tina Guo Cello where it's way too much vibrato and expression to be used for anything but super emotional passages. I think if one is to create a huge library like this, it would be in their best interest to record at least 2-3 different vibrato intensities...still live performances, but at least we have the option of loading which vibrato intensity we need, instead of being stuck. Granted it's a lot to do, and probably costly, but there is no reason I see that it couldn't be an expansion set like other libraries have. You have the main heavy vibrato library, then at a later time, they can release the additional vibrato samples as expansions and CHARGE people if they want it. Not everything has to be free...although not complaining here, just saying; if there's a will, there's a way.

I look at it like this: If I have to buy more than one violin library to cover different emotions, I'd rather spend the money to get an expansion and keep the sound the same.
 
So from what many are saying, this is the equivalent to the Tina Guo Cello where it's way too much vibrato and expression to be used for anything but super emotional passages. I think if one is to create a huge library like this, it would be in their best interest to record at least 2-3 different vibrato intensities...still live performances, but at least we have the option of loading which vibrato intensity we need, instead of being stuck. Granted it's a lot to do, and probably costly, but there is no reason I see that it couldn't be an expansion set like other libraries have. You have the main heavy vibrato library, then at a later time, they can release the additional vibrato samples as expansions and CHARGE people if they want it. Not everything has to be free...although not complaining here, just saying; if there's a will, there's a way.

I look at it like this: If I have to buy more than one violin library to cover different emotions, I'd rather spend the money to get an expansion and keep the sound the same.

I would not say that is a fair assumption, there are many varieties of Vibrato depending on what is being played. With us the vibrato is phrase based, depending on where you are in the phrase and what you are playing and having 56k samples actually really helps this. Lower dynamics have gentler vibrato, Full legatos have different vibrato to 1/2 legatos and different again to 1/4 legatos as well as their dynamic related differences, if onbow or bow changed ... , mid arcs and arcs have progressive vibrato, sustains have immediate vibrato, diminuendos have diminishing vibrato and I could go on, but most importantly, all our vibrato is in Phrase as the Violinist would play it making it sound natural and lyrical. We are capturing the Performer and how they would approach the phrase ;) That is the main aim.
 

jaketanner

Senior Member
I would not say that is a fair assumption, there are many varieties of Vibrato depending on what is being played. With us the vibrato is phrase based, depending on where you are in the phrase and what you are playing and having 56k samples actually really helps this. Lower dynamics have gentler vibrato, Full legatos have different vibrato to 1/2 legatos and different again to 1/4 legatos as well as their dynamic related differences, if onbow or bow changed ... , mid arcs and arcs have progressive vibrato, sustains have immediate vibrato, diminuendos have diminishing vibrato and I could go on, but most importantly, all our vibrato is in Phrase as the Violinist would play it making it sound natural and lyrical. We are capturing the Performer and how they would approach the phrase ;) That is the main aim.
So it’s a dynamic vibrato based off what you are playing?
 
OP
Virharmonic

Virharmonic

Senior Member
So it’s a dynamic vibrato based off what you are playing?
Dynamics and the type of legato affects the vibrato. It is always expressive, but the vibrato is affected by what you play as Alex pointed out. I would recommend to check out all the audio demos and listen to how users apply it. Everything you hear in the demos is doable via our violin. Naturally I'm an expressive violinist, so I use expressive vibrato, so even pp dynamic will have vibrato, but vibrato that I would use as a violinist if I played that part of the phrase. As a violinist I can openly say that the Bohemian Violin is now scarily close mirror to how I approach phrasing in real life :) If you are looking for tamed violinist I would recommend something else, to be honest if you have asked me to record some classicist piece with limited vibrato I would decline such contract as I wouldn't be the right violinist for that and I wouldn't enjoy recording it.

It is like you said. Tina Guo sounds too expressive to you. The point is, it means that CineSample guys did their job right. Listening to her works live and in concert she is a very expression packed musician and I love her music for it :)

PS Tina, if you are reading this and ever traveling through Czech Rep, do give us a shout. I hear that Alex makes the best tea in the country :2thumbs:
 
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jaketanner

Senior Member
It is like you said. Tina Guo sounds too expressive to you. The point is, it means that CineSample guys did their job right.
I agree...but it's a one trick pony. I have both volumes and find very little use because it's so specific. However, I do realize that THAT is the point, and what it captures, it captures well...same with Bohemian Violin...although I can see many more uses for the BV due to it's articulations and playability.
 

jaketanner

Senior Member
TG may well be a one trick pony (at least it was initially, with the expansion I don't think it's a one trick pony), but Bohemian is not.
Yes I agree. I think I eluded to that. And even with the Vol 2 for Tina, I don’t find it much better. All it did is add additional articulations, but the slow legato is still only in Vol 1.