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Best way to orchestrate with PROFESSIONAL libraries?

I have no experience with SCS as I kind of disliked it sound out of the box (violins). But then again, I can say the same for SSS. But then you start programming and it blows all the other ensemble libs away. It's silly but so human, start an ensemble patch, play a chord and think: "Yeeeah, it's not my kind of sound". That's why I used albion for the past month: easier and sounds better out of the box. Silly me, it's actually the other way around.

There are a couple of libraries that you buy, play around and feel buyer's remorse. Then, long time after, you go back, thinking: "I paid money for it. I HAVE to use it" and it turns great, actually. (Although, it seems, not always, in some cases I've seen).
Yes, not everyone likes the sound of SCS, but I’m very fond of it and it’s long been my base string library. And by that I mean I do like the sound of it at a visceral level, though many find it nasally. And I like its ensemble patches too, which I often use for sketching. (I rotate among SCS, Loegria, and Neo for sketching and I can’t really tell you why I select the one I do for the sketch work of a particular project.) By contrast I’ve struggled with SSS. That’s nothing against SSS, it’s just interesting how these things work.
 
Yes, not everyone likes the sound of SCS, but I’m very fond of it and it’s long been my base string library. And by that I mean I do like the sound of it at a visceral level, though many find it nasally. And I like its ensemble patches too, which I often use for sketching. (I rotate among SCS, Loegria, and Neo for sketching and I can’t really tell you why I select the one I do for the sketch work of a particular project.) By contrast I’ve struggled with SSS. That’s nothing against SSS, it’s just interesting how these things work.

I very like the overall direction of your collection: SCS, A2, Neo. Maybe also parts of Olafur Arnalds Chamber Evolutions here and there. Glass & Steel also would go well. I very enjoy that Northern style of writing, although you have to be careful with some of OA stuff like Stratus (that one kind of sounds the same no matter who uses it). It's too characteristic of Olafur's style and there are too many people sounding like him (especially with stratus). If I want a similar sounding soft piano, I try programming it myself. The same goes for Noire. There is that Particles Engine thing, you can hear it everywhere and everyone sounds the same.

How is Neo, btw? Everyone says it's like Tundra 1.5 (better). I kind of like divisi sections there and those.. seagulls (?) string articulations sound beautiful. Worth buying if I already have Tundra?

P.S.: I do like the demos of SCS and final proper tracks with it. It's just I imagine I would be a little discouraged launching 1st violins, pressing a key and being like: Ehh. But then again, you can write with other libraries first and then replace it.
 
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Hi there,

Not trying to discourage your quest -- always up for trying to learn -- but I wonder a few things when reviewing the initial post:

1. Can you read music at all? A little?

2. What is your goal in dumping the ensemble patches?

The second question, why have you set yourself this mission, I raise because I'm wondering if you are just trying to learn, or if you want to hire some real players to record some of your material, or if you just think you're 'supposed to' write that way?

If it's the latter "I ought to learn this" then that's kind of loaded. Most samples-only mockups sound pretty bad, honestly, so if you are getting pleasing results with an ensemble, I wouldn't change. I certainly wouldn't discard them altogether, but maybe start supplementing with individual instruments.

The Real Thing

Part of my reasoning is that a single cello or trumpet or viola is so absolutely amazing in what it can do. I had a single violin player last week (and actually later today, same player) and she brought magic, feeling, tenderness, wistfulness -- all of that from one player. The melody is fine but what she brought to it -- wow.

So what I'm getting at is that probably there is more great music discarded because people try to realise it with hideous, dull, poorly tuned, and simply lifeless samples. If only they had a string quartet or a few woodwinds or anything, some of that music would breathe and maybe go somewhere.

Consequently, if you're writing good-sounding material with the ensembles, don't toss them aside because you are "supposed to write like a real composer." I don't know if there are 20 composers alive today outside of media who get their pieces played by an orchestra any more, and even within media, how many get any time to rehearse, or anything you'd call a "proper" performance? Precious few.

So, don't do anything because someone implied or you assumed what you already are doing is "wrong."

And real performers are only a click away these days. Many soloists can record your piece at home and work that way.
Forgot to mention, btw, I totally agree that even one live player changes EVERYTHING.
 
I very like the overall direction of your collection: SCS, A2, Neo. Maybe also parts of Olafur Arnalds Chamber Evolutions here and there. Glass & Steel also would go well. I very enjoy that Northern style of writing, although you have to be careful with some of OA stuff like Stratus (that one kind of sounds the same no matter who uses it). It's too characteristic of Olafur's style and there are too many people sounding like him (especially with stratus). If I want a similar sounding soft piano, I try programming it myself. The same goes for Noire. There is that Particles Engine thing, you can hear it everywhere and everyone sounds the same.

How is Neo, btw? Everyone says it's like Tundra 1.5 (better). I kind of like divisi sections there and those.. seagulls (?) string articulations sound beautiful. Worth buying if I already have Tundra?

P.S.: I do like the demos of SCS and final proper tracks with it. It's just I imagine I would be a little discouraged launching 1st violins, pressing a key and being like: Ehh. But then again, you can write with other libraries first and then replace it.
I like Neo and its extensive collection of sul tastos and flautandos, super and otherwise. In that respect it’s the chamber version of Tundra.(I also have both Arnaulds evolutions but neither Stratus nor the toolkit.) But i actually use Neo most for doing quick theater orchestra things. It’s very useful for making fast arrangements of Tin Pan Alley songs, and mocking up silent film music written for small theater orchestras. (I teach this stuff and there are not a lot of recordings that match the scores and sheet music I have.) I've also found the non-orchestral selections of Neo more useful than those in the other Albions, though I’m not fond of the EDNA engine.

I don’t find it overlaps much with Tundra. The ensemble sizes are so different. It has more overlap with the strings of Loegria and SCS (ensemble patches) as far as the strings are concerned. The range of the low string legato in Neo doesn't extend very high, making it almost useless for tenor lines. The winds have a nice sound, and are usefully different from those in Albion One. The winds also have noise issues (saxes) and the original issue had some really bad tuning issues. The tuning issues have allegedly been fixed but I haven’t checked them since the update. The brass is an odd combination but like the winds it works surprisingly well for stock theater arranging, so long as you don’t need to rely on the brass to carry the tune.
 
I like Neo and its extensive collection of sul tastos and flautandos, super and otherwise. In that respect it’s the chamber version of Tundra.(I also have both Arnaulds evolutions but neither Stratus nor the toolkit.) But i actually use Neo most for doing quick theater orchestra things. It’s very useful for making fast arrangements of Tin Pan Alley songs, and mocking up silent film music written for small theater orchestras. (I teach this stuff and there are not a lot of recordings that match the scores and sheet music I have.) I've also found the non-orchestral selections of Neo more useful than those in the other Albions, though I’m not fond of the EDNA engine.

I don’t find it overlaps much with Tundra. The ensemble sizes are so different. It has more overlap with the strings of Loegria and SCS (ensemble patches) as far as the strings are concerned. The range of the low string legato in Neo doesn't extend very high, making it almost useless for tenor lines. The winds have a nice sound, and are usefully different from those in Albion One. The winds also have noise issues (saxes) and the original issue had some really bad tuning issues. The tuning issues have allegedly been fixed but I haven’t checked them since the update. The brass is an odd combination but like the winds it works surprisingly well for stock theater arranging, so long as you don’t need to rely on the brass to carry the tune.

Oh, yes, I remember I heard about NEO replacing Albion II now. Makes sence! But does it really? Does it feel like it's a replacement or is it totally different?
 
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Oh, yes, I remember I heard about NEO replacing Albion II now. Makes sence! But does it really? Does it feel like it's a replacement or is it totally different?
The strings are very much in the same vein as Loegria. They are not simple substitutes though in the way Albion One replaced Albion (whether or not one prefers the original version). I think Neo's strings were crafted to fit as a chamber extension of both Albion One and Tundra. I always found the rest of Loegria to be incoherent—recorders, sackbutts, and the horneuph. Neo is laid out much more coherently, and the winds and brass work more or less as sections, even if I wonder if they made the right orchestration choices for the chamber feel of Neo's strings. So, no, Neo is not really a replacement for Loegria, even if not entirely different.
 
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