Berlin Strings v Afflatus

Discussion in 'SAMPLE Talk' started by Soundhound, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. Simon Ravn

    Simon Ravn Senior Member

    I am not bringing down Strezov. I think they have done marvelously on this forum, and I own a few of their products, which I like a lot. I also bought Synchron, and yes, I am not using it and probably won't be. I fear it could be the same with Afflatus because of its dated sound (most likely due to the equipment used for recording - mics not quite up to the task e.g.) and other issues like the stereo image jumping + phasing I hear in all demos. It could have been an awesome library, is my impression, but the foundation for it just doesn't seem to have been in place.
     
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  2. MaxOctane

    MaxOctane Active Member

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    Let's please stay civil and not question each other's integrity.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2018
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  3. HBen

    HBen Active Member

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    In my eyes, they are doing a better job than VSL, so if you have found any issues and problems with Afflatus, please go to find Strezov, shoot him an email, or even schedule a video conference via Skype with him, I think he said that before.

    Well, if what's done is done, and it's not possible to fix (Just like Synchron Strings I, they will not fix it, even it's possible to do so), and I guess that's it, you can walk away, save your money and expect that maybe a next string library will do a better job.

    For Cory, he has received the copy for free to review....so I think he is somehow excited, but that's not a big deal. As a friend or people who benefits from someone else, will always talk things at good side, right? That is how this world runs.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2018
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  4. Cory Pelizzari

    Cory Pelizzari (Solonoid Studio)

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    Claiming lies about me on this thread is spurious and disgusting. I have never put down CSS, and anyone with a brain who has seen my video on it knows this. Also, I don't even need to defend myself regarding my videos and my thoughts on Afflatus, as those who know better will know the truth. If you are in league with others on this site who hold a grudge against me and are attempting to hijack this thread the same way someone else did earlier, then you should be ashamed of yourself. End of discussion.

    <<MODERATORS NOTE>> As one might guess, drama ensued after this post. Simon's post was a fair one, and it's fair that Cory responded. The posts after this, while legitimate and also (possibly) fair, don't add much to the topic, though, so we've moved those to the Drama Zone.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 30, 2018
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  5. Vik

    Vik Scandi Member

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    :)
    No, more like what I've started to do here:
    Screen Shot 2018-11-30 at 09.41.33.png
     
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  6. Cory Pelizzari

    Cory Pelizzari (Solonoid Studio)

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    Hmm... Still pretty close... Just slightly abridged... It'd be cool if one could insert a bass cleff into the patch name for the basses...
     
  7. chocobitz825

    chocobitz825 Senior Member

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    Sorry to barge in but that’s just an opinion, not a fact, and Cory thinking otherwise is not a bias. I honestly don’t think CSS is that “playable”, at least not in the way I’d prefer. It’s one I use occasionally but in the end I’d agree that afflatus is easier to get up and go with. At least in my opinion that is.
     
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  8. HelixK

    HelixK Active Member

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    Thanks Vik, that was an excellent read. Finally some perspective from an experienced Berlin user that, despite the short time with Afflatus, knows his ways with a new library and has no bias towards either of them.

    I understand things get a bit crazy during holiday season (poor Jesus) and there's this time pressure going on, but even at a discount, both libraries are still very expensive.

    Don't fall for basic manipulative marketing tactics and remember that there's always the "greatest sale we've ever done" an email away.
     
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  9. mobileavatar

    mobileavatar Member

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    That's what I noticed in many of the Afflatus demos also. The fact similar stereo image problems exist in Strezov's children's choir lib. If they could not offer a fix for Árva, I wonder what kind of magic they could pull with Afflatus.

    It would be great if Strezov could show us they have the technical capabilities to solve those issues esp. with the slightly older products.

    George's initial responses on the forum are very much appreciated. Yet, his support team basically dropped its response after the first reply, which IMHO, could hardly be qualified as sincere supporting efforts.
     
  10. Cory Pelizzari

    Cory Pelizzari (Solonoid Studio)

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    If anyone else who owns the library (besides myself) would care to chime in and say whether or not they hear stereo imaging or phasing issues in Afflatus, that would be great.
     
  11. Strezov

    Strezov Active Member

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    Hi Simon, obviously music is a matter of perspective and is subjective, as sample libraries and virtual instruments, so I don't want to get into that discussion. However, I'd just like to point out that Bulgaria is not a 5th world country as some people believe :) and we do have mics that are up to the task.
    Please feel free to check the microphone list of Sofia Session Studio: http://www.fourformusic.com/studio/

    Generally in our sessions, I asked for Neumann M150 for Decca Tree, U87 for the celli, basses, violas, Schoeps MK4 for the high strings, all amped through Millenia HV-3D and going in Apogee Symphony I/O (it's not in the list at the moment because the studio switched to Avid HD). But - as I said in the video - that's hardly the most important part. I don't believe in thousand lines of code, of recording a snare drum with 45 microphones. Reasoning behind this - I, as a composer, need tools that are simple and get the job done. That's the philosophy behind our sampling company - people might like it or might not. That's life!

    ---

    @mobileavatar - yes, we are already going through all patches of Arva and seeing what can be done based on your feedback - we're aiming to do this in December, but depends on how things with Afflatus will continue - we have tons of files that we recorded (we already did the scene d'amour celli if you haven't seen the video) and that need to be polished. Moreover, we have a 30-day slot with Native Instruments to deliver an instrument update - which is almost finished, based on suggestions and feedback mostly on VI Control. So, after that's done we're going to move on to checking Árva. I do have to say that the panning is baked in the samples already so I'm not sure if this will be fixed. However, if many people complain about this (and honestly you have been the first among many users to send us such an email) we will gladly go back and remix the recording files. Our support staff consists of one guy replying to many emails - regarding educational discounts, possible add-on features for Afflatus, supporting Native Access implementation (which is I think hardly our job) and even just talking with our user base (some really fantastic stories there!).

    ---
    And finally:
    I find this offensive towards Cory, not to mention the actual wording. I can guarantee that he does not work for us and just received a copy for review. And I thought that this is a community of grown-ups, not a DOTA 2 discussion board?

    P.S.
    I am member of DOTA 2 discussion boards :)
     
  12. HelixK

    HelixK Active Member

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    Cory, I believe you do not own Berlin Strings, Chamber Strings or Intimate Strings, am I correct?

    That didn't prevent you from giving very specific feedback about libraries that you do not own nor used. So why this now? I do not need to own Afflatus to hear issues, including the stereo imaging issues I mentioned last week. It's in every demo I've heard so far, including your review. So, why are you so quick to shut down anything but praise?

    You seem to overlook issues with Afflatus that many are reporting, yet you don't mind making this sort of comments about other libraries:

    "Berlin Strings has weak scripting and legato. I wouldn't pick on this flaw if the library wasn't so expensive. There are some who will defend the library to their death but the facts remain, just like how Chamber Strings has many flaws with the scripting and legato. In this capacity, I don't care if anyone takes offense, because all I care about is hard data, not bias. Afflatus may not be entirely flawless but it's definitely better scripted and presented."

    That's your tone every single time someone mentions anything remotely close to a flaw with Afflatus. Do you work or speak on the behalf of Strezov Sampling? I know you are going to say that you are only trying to help and that's really nice, but when you take over the conversation in every single thread, only to dismiss others, it starts to wear off.

    I've been talking with other composers on other platforms that are also following us here, and most are avoiding leaving comments because they know you will instantly jump in. I recommended them to directly contact Strezov in this case.

    Your review was very helpful, but I'm afraid that's not the case here. I want to be clear that this is NOT a confrontation, as you seem to be very sensitive to opposing opinions, I'm just asking you to maybe chill a little and let others speak their minds without going full guns blazing...
     
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  13. Simon Ravn

    Simon Ravn Senior Member

    Hi. I am not saying that Bulgaria is a 5th world country. I am just saying that also from personal experience, the sound recorded by engineers in Eastern Europe just seems to be dated/old sounding in lack of better words. Like either the equipment used or the engineers put a pillow on the recording. I don't know much about mics, but I know that when we did our custom samples recordings many years ago in Prague, we got a very high resolution recording showing lots of overtones and air. We brought our own technician, who brought his own mics (a set of limited edition Bruel & Kjær for the decca tree). I think he used what was there for spot mics.

    The result was very different when I returned there (to the very same venue) a couple of years later to record a score for a game; the sound was closed, too up front, unpleasant and well.. old sounding. We used the equipment and engineer in place that time around. Totally different sound. Ever since, I know the people I work for have brought their own engineer and possibly mics to wherever they go (I think it is actually Bulgaria or Slovakia these days) and the results are very different. So obviously some technical/cultural thing must be different.

    As said, I don't know much about mics so I can't really comment whether those Neumanns are considered state of the art for orchestral recordings, and used in London/LA etc. as well. They possibly could be and it is then only a matter of engineering and possibly the placement of mics...?
     
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  14. Cory Pelizzari

    Cory Pelizzari (Solonoid Studio)

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    You assume I do not own the libraries I mention. You are wrong. Please do not accuse me of lying without proof.

    Claiming on behalf of others that they are afraid to post on this thread because of me is presumptuous. Anyone can post any thoughts they have on the library here, and when I respond with my thoughts on how the library works and what I've found while playing is not "taking over conversations". If someone is offended that I'm posting about the things I like in Afflatus, that is preposterous.

    When I say Afflatus is better presented and has better legato scripting than Chamber Strings or Berlin Strings, I absolutely mean it. Do a side by side comparison and count the legato features each library has next to one another. Once again, I don't care about bias, only HARD DATA.

    In regards to me being defensive - I have only been defensive towards posts that are directed at me, like yours is. Please stop picking points about individual's posts and only post your thoughts on Afflatus or Berlin Strings in this thread.

    I'm sorry my high opinion of Afflatus seems to be a problem for you, but I'm not about to change my opinion, or the facts regarding the library, for anyone or any reason.

    I'm still waiting for someone who has Afflatus to post an example of these stereo imaging issues you mention by the way. Violins 1 to the left, Violins 2 slightly to the left, Violas slightly to the right, Celli to the right, Basses to the right. Experimental patches need not follow this format. It's all there for those who are using the library and can hear for themselves. If they do find a problem, I encourage them to post an example so Strezov can hear it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2018
  15. Strezov

    Strezov Active Member

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    If it's what I think it is, that might be Bulgaria, can't share details though. But I can assure you the engineering team and equipment was in-house. But that's very much off-topic, happy to continue this over PM. Sorry, maybe I get a bit worked up...
     
  16. Mike Fox

    Mike Fox Senior Member

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    I know this is a Berlin Strings vs Afflatus thread, but since CSS has been brought up multiple times, I just wanted to post a quick demonstration comparing the legato.

    Right off the bat, Afflatus is MUCH easier to play. There's just no way around it. It took me several takes to get the hang of the CSS, while Afflatus was a walk in the park.

    The first clip is the Violins 1 patch from CSS in Con Sordino, followed by the Scene d'Amour patch.



    The second clip is the standard Violins 1 patch from CSS, followed by the Lush Strings patch from Afflatus.



    I also wanted to note that no reverb has been added. As you can hear, Afflatus is much closer/dryer sounding (which I greatly prefer). CSS is more lush, but I feel that can get in the way of detail at times.

    Personally, I'd take Afflatus.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2018
  17. sostenuto

    sostenuto Big NKS Fan !

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    Thank-you for these comparisons.:thumbsup:
    With BF Sale over, notable CSS /CSSS cost advantage is gone.

    Oldheimers' ears pushes me to headphones and several repeats. o_O
    (more 'clarity' for me on Track #2 _ Afflatus)

    Afflatus decision now impacting all others.
     
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  18. Cory Pelizzari

    Cory Pelizzari (Solonoid Studio)

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    The library will get bigger next year, which will essentially mean all the free content gets added to the current price for nothing, so that's something to consider.
     
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  19. Cory Pelizzari

    Cory Pelizzari (Solonoid Studio)

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    Detail is a gap I've noticed with CSS and CSSS. I can get a great large section sound and a great solo sound, but I always wanted there to be a chamber CSS for the in between parts. Afflatus has a variety of chamber sections, which I found to be refreshing, considering chamber ensembles aren't common in sampling for some reason.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2018
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  20. MaxOctane

    MaxOctane Active Member

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    @Strezov for all us last-minute people here, when exactly does sale end?
     

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