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Berlin First Chairs/Sine Player, Messed Up Legato?

So, I've been having an issue with Berlin First Chairs ever since I got it (and I've only ever had it for Sine Player). The legatos sound kind of terrible? Like, it sounds like a bunch of sustain patches overlapping each other horribly each time a note plays. I just did as deep a dive as a I could (considering OT doesn't appear to have made any manual to speak of) to fix the issue. I was able to improve it a little bit by shortening the release envelope and lowering the volume of the legato transitions somewhat, but there has to be something I'm missing or just plain doing wrong, it doesn't sound like this at all in the demos. Here's a sound example (the CCs could use much more massaging, but honestly, it's hard to judge what I'm doing while these samples sound all messed up like they do). Is it a matter of just bad use of velocity or something? I can take a screenshot of the MIDI if it helps.

 

Pincel

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So, I've been having an issue with Berlin First Chairs ever since I got it (and I've only ever had it for Sine Player). The legatos sound kind of terrible? Like, it sounds like a bunch of sustain patches overlapping each other horribly each time a note plays. I just did as deep a dive as a I could (considering OT doesn't appear to have made any manual to speak of) to fix the issue. I was able to improve it a little bit by shortening the release envelope and lowering the volume of the legato transitions somewhat, but there has to be something I'm missing or just plain doing wrong, it doesn't sound like this at all in the demos. Here's a sound example (the CCs could use much more massaging, but honestly, it's hard to judge what I'm doing while these samples sound all messed up like they do). Is it a matter of just bad use of velocity or something? I can take a screenshot of the MIDI if it helps.

Well, I don't own that specific library, but I can 100% assure you that something is wrong. That would never be normal in a OT library. Are you sure you're picking the correct articulation? Sounds like the envelopes are messed up, or somehow missing some transition samples or scripting. Pretty weird... I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will chime in at some point.
 
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Well, I don't own that specific library, but I can 100% assure you that something is wrong. That would never be normal in a OT library. Are you sure you're picking the correct articulation? Sounds like the envelopes are messed up, or somehow missing some transition samples or scripting. Pretty weird... I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will chime in at some point.
Yup, I'm using the Sustains+LEG patch, which is basically just their legato. I tried setting a normal Sustain patch to legato but it didn't help. Very oddly it just sort of started working on one part of the track without making any changes (and sounds great!), but on this particular part that I shared it still doesn't work...no idea why it suddenly worked on the other side though, it really does make me think something is wrong.
 

JTB

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Are you maybe switching the Legato on and off with a CC message?

capture-png.56395
 
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Are you maybe switching the Legato on and off with a CC message?

capture-png.56395
Hmm, not that I'm aware, but it's possible! What settings would I have on for that to be happening and how could I troubleshoot it? I assume the .png you tried to post had the answer to that but it doesn't appear to be loading, at least not that I can see.
 

jbuhler

Senior Member
So, I've been having an issue with Berlin First Chairs ever since I got it (and I've only ever had it for Sine Player). The legatos sound kind of terrible? Like, it sounds like a bunch of sustain patches overlapping each other horribly each time a note plays. I just did as deep a dive as a I could (considering OT doesn't appear to have made any manual to speak of) to fix the issue. I was able to improve it a little bit by shortening the release envelope and lowering the volume of the legato transitions somewhat, but there has to be something I'm missing or just plain doing wrong, it doesn't sound like this at all in the demos. Here's a sound example (the CCs could use much more massaging, but honestly, it's hard to judge what I'm doing while these samples sound all messed up like they do). Is it a matter of just bad use of velocity or something? I can take a screenshot of the MIDI if it helps.

I don't think the legato on the solo strings is the best that OT has ever produced but it is indeed way better than your recording, and I also have the Sine version. You can try contacting support. I've found them very helpful.
 
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Check if this button is on or off.

View attachment 56406
Oh, you can turn that on and off with a CC message? On my most recent attempt I've just left that off the whole time, still causes horrible breaks when switching between articulations, and my computer has power to spare while running all of this so I know it isn't that.

I did get in touch with customer support, they got to me very quickly and basically redid the midi primarily with portatos and it did sound a bit better, but it still sounds quite different from any demo I've heard (and past experiences I've had with the product). It would be nice if they released the MIDI files from their mock-ups so people could take a look and see what they're doing.
 

Getsumen

16 > 24
Oh, you can turn that on and off with a CC message? On my most recent attempt I've just left that off the whole time, still causes horrible breaks when switching between articulations, and my computer has power to spare while running all of this so I know it isn't that.

I did get in touch with customer support, they got to me very quickly and basically redid the midi primarily with portatos and it did sound a bit better, but it still sounds quite different from any demo I've heard (and past experiences I've had with the product). It would be nice if they released the MIDI files from their mock-ups so people could take a look and see what they're doing.
Wait what? You kept it off? Would that mean you're playing the legato patch without legato on, hence it's just a sustain patch. So there's no transitions and there's note overlaps
 
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Wait what? You kept it off? Would that mean you're playing the legato patch without legato on, hence it's just a sustain patch. So there's no transitions and there's note overlaps
No no, it was on originally, I'm talking about a new pass I did after the first one that I put up (which I have not posted here, what you've heard is the original version that's basically all the original Sustain-LEG patch and some shorts--I tried getting clever and using a bunch of articulations but it caused bad breaks), I took out the legato all together at one point because I found the note overlaps were worse than using sustains with the note lengths shortened That's why I came here, it seemed like wild behavior, like something was wrong (and I promise I'm dead certain the button has been off and on at the right times, I'm dumb but I'm not that stupid). I've also used the portatos with legatos and that's the closest to sounding right, but the fact that the note overlaps were so present when the instruments were supposed to be playing mono (which I'm 99% sure is part of what that legato button does) is very odd.
 
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jbuhler

Senior Member
I would go back to the original set up that comes from OT. Then post midi and audio from that set up. I can run your midi through my setup and see if we’re getting the same output. That would at least allow you to determine if the problem is something in your setup.

I won’t be back to my rig until tonight but should be able to send you back results quickly when I get back.
 

JTB

Active Member
Oh, you can turn that on and off with a CC message?
I'm not sure you can turn it on and off with CC message come to think of it. But it should be on if you want to hear the legato transitions. Also check the drop down menu under the 'Leg' icon to make sure you don't have 'No Transitions' checked.
 
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I'm really not sure what I was doing wrong, it's unusual, but I'm sure whatever I was doing was user error. I've never had an issue like this with OT products in the past, so I'll just spend some more time with it and see what I can come up with.
 
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