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SAURON - The DAW All Media Composers Must Learn???

I agree that it's a tough situation to be in. When I was an assistant and was paid what amounted to bus fare money, I had to pay for rent and food, and had no additional income. My wife and I had a few harrowing financial moments around that time.

However, it's about optics again. I paid a crazy amount of money when I went to sound engineering school, and I didn't learn one percent there of what I learned by being an assistant. People tend to forget that assisting a seasoned professional in their workplace is a privilege, not a right, and at the very least it's like going to the best school on the planet for free.

In the end, like with most things in life, it comes down to how badly we want something. Being a creative, self-employed professional is not a 9 to 5 job and there are no financial guarantees of having a steady salary, so I can't see how training to be one should be any different. Just my opinion.
I agree that on the job experience and learning can often being more useful that a degree, but with a degree in the UK you can get loans and also you normally only need to do 35 hours or less a week, so you can then supplement with a part-time job. With an assistant job you wouldn't get a loan and I doubt you would have the time for any other job.

As a rule I don't like industries that require you to have money to do the job.
 
There are undoubtedly some people like this—I have met a few, as I'm sure most of us have—but respectfully, you are painting a picture of a straw man.

I've been in the sound and music industry for over 30 years and have seen how it has evolved, so I may have some information you don't. Just saying.

I would argue that the career plan for most assistants/prospective assistants is this: to be able to make a healthy living in the media music industry, and to be treated humanely while doing so.

And I agree with you. But reality comes at people fast. It's a tough and competitive field, and they don't teach how tough it is at school. If a healthy living is working 9 to 5 and being paid enough to be able to afford a mortgage, a car and kids, you probably already know that most assistants will not have that. Hell, most composers won't have that.

This does not read like a bunch of entitled brats (to me, at least), but rather, on the whole, earnest young people who are eager to improve themselves and figure out where they fit in the grand scheme of things.

You used the word 'brats', not me. Entitlement takes many shapes and forms and degrees. And it's one thing to fill out a survey and another one completely is being in the trenches in the thick of it. Hindsight is 20/20.

Which may have been fine for you, but honestly, nobody lives in LA on $240/month. Something heavily subsidized your experiences. It seems you took advantage of the opportunities presented to you in the way you wanted to, and that is great! But that you were able to attempt that at all says more about your external support system than you intrinsically. Most people do not have such support structures.

Not so. Picture moving to a country where you barely speak the language, have no family or friends and all you have are some savings that are running out pretty fast. That doesn't sound like a "support structure" to me. I just wanted to get in the industry badly enough that, if I had to take a night shift flipping burgers at a shitty all-night diner, I would have done it so I could keep going at my dream. All I'm saying is that I don't see that drive and determination that much now.
 
There is the term of the so-called "bullshit jobs" established by bestselling author David Graeber. By definition, all of them have in common that the person working these is not getting the feeling to do anything substantial, anything valuable to society, anything meaningful, etc. Mostly, those are well-paying jobs in order to compensate the worker for the empty feeling they get.

I guess, in this context, it is rather not well-payed most of the time, as the payment is the assistants hope to finally become a little lord one day. It is the ancient master-apprentice-relationship. It is not restricted to the arts - I have observed the same thing in craftsmanship very often. The only tragedy is, in the arts the degree of exploitation is huge while the chances of actual reward for the pain is lowest ...

To you kids out there - there actually is another way: Learn your craft well, go study and work with other beginners! That is also not a guarantee to "break into the business" (neither is being an assistant). But you may learn more by it and if you need money, there is always the option to make tea for someone busy while being payed! ;)
 
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I've been in the sound and music industry for over 30 years and have seen how it has evolved, so I may have some information you don't. Just saying.
You have two decades on me, and I'm sure you know things I do not. That has almost nothing to do with the fact that the statement I was responding to...
I'll argue that there's a much stronger sense of entitlement nowadays, and that has made the tea boy/runner/assistant position harder to sustain for most composers and recording engineers. Too many people only care about their end goal of being a well-known composer, and not about the invaluable learning of going through the journey, as you mentioned in your video. They want a hard timeline for when they will be making the big bucks and be in the industry's spotlight, and want to get there quick.
... is a straw man, or at best a sweeping generalization. "Kids these days" is not a firm foundation on which to build a position—or have I misunderstood you here? I don't mean to commit a straw man myself, either :)

And I agree with you. But reality comes at people fast. It's a tough and competitive field, and they don't teach how tough it is at school. If a healthy living is working 9 to 5 and being paid enough to be able to afford a mortgage, a car and kids, you probably already know that most assistants will not have that. Hell, most composers won't have that.
Fair enough, and having some grandiose notions disabused is all part of the post-academic experience. It's part of growing up and becoming a functioning member of western adult society, in other words. I completely agree that schools do not spend nearly enough time on this aspect of the career/industry as they ought to.
But yes, this is part of a bigger issue (some might call it political) but the fact that to some it is a "radical idea" that one should be able to support oneself on a single minimum wage job...just shows how western/American capitalism has brainwashed the population. Should not a high-skill job in a high-expense city provide somewhat over that amount? My music editor friend tells me that the base assistant music editor rate on a multimillion-dollar production is $45/hour. You'll be lucky to make half that on the same project as a composer's assistant. It's not like these productions are starved for money, it's that composers have been squeezed and are passing the squeeze downward. It's not fair to either person.
You used the word 'brats', not me. Entitlement takes many shapes and forms and degrees. And it's one thing to fill out a survey and another one completely is being in the trenches in the thick of it. Hindsight is 20/20.
Yes, I perhaps extrapolated connotation a bit too much. My apologies. The point stands though. Can/should people act better in the heat of the moment? Sure—composers and assistants alike. I see this as a moot point. People are people. Humans are humans. We are all as likely to mess up or act as we wish we had not as the next one. The survey (which, to be fair, was filled out by self-selecting individuals, which already shows some bias toward eagerness) shows what it shows. In fact, here are some anonymous composers' answers:

composer - wishes.jpg
composer - biggest challenge.jpg

Again, self-selecting bias aside, these are not the answers of megalomaniacs, evil people, or incompetents. By and large they're just working professionals who want/need the help of other professionals. (Here's the thought behind "I'm not your superior, just your boss; I was just here before you; etc.") The work needs to get done and they need someone to help accomplish that. Most adults don't have a fully-developed prefrontal cortex (the "executive decision-making" center of the brain—strategy, impulse control, and logical empathy vis-a-vis sonder) until 25. 25!! I would wager that most "self-centered" assistants are fresh out of undergrad, and/or went to grad school early, so though they might know Giant Steps or stereo mic techniques or how to decode a MIDI byte they literally do not have the cognitive capacity to even attempt to be fully-professional until halfway through their third (!) decade....and if you look at the data here, "work ethic" and "communication" top composers' chief concerns re: their current/former assistants. Correlation does not imply causation, but these are certainly incredibly correlated.

All this to say: empathy should be extended both ways in any human equation.

Not so. Picture moving to a country where you barely speak the language, have no family or friends and all you have are some savings that are running out pretty fast. That doesn't sound like a "support structure" to me. I just wanted to get in the industry badly enough that, if I had to take a night shift flipping burgers at a shitty all-night diner, I would have done it so I could keep going at my dream. All I'm saying is that I don't see that drive and determination that much now.
That certainly takes a lot of grit and determination, and I do not mean to downplay your role in it. But being able to even think about moving internationally for work, and having savings at all, is more privilege than many have, as much hard work and exploitation of you that that subsequently entailed. Trial-by-fire is a great way to learn many things...but there is a difference between running the gauntlet and exploitation. If you were okay with your own exploitation, that's your call, but I don't think it's fair to expect that of others.

And please know I say all this in full respect—I don't know you, but even if I did I would not want even a fundamental disagreement to become a personal attack. I for one am thankful for your insights; diversity of experience is one of the best things about this forum.
 
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And please know I say all this in full respect—I don't know you, but even if I did I would not want even a fundamental disagreement to become a personal attack. I for one am thankful for your insights; diversity of experience is one of the best things about this forum.

I do appreciate this. I agree with your points of view in general, even if our different backgrounds and experiences make it hard to see eye to eye in some of the specifics. On those, I'm happy to agree to disagree, and I recognize your positions as well-meaning and constructive.

Cheers man!
 
Is this a pernicious barbaric world I describe, something I've become normalised to?

No and yes, @christianhenson .

NO - I wager many of your viewers are not CA's and they're getting a reality check. Just because it's artistic work doesn't mean there's no hierarchy. The composer is an artist but also an entrepreneur, team leader, and department head. The CA needs to be disciplined & reliable, understand that mentoring is a bonus to the work getting done, and understand the composer does not need "another artist" giving ideas. (unless THEY initiate a collaborative relationship with you and then there's an appropriate time). Knowing your role & taking instruction is not self-abasement. Seems like your viewers need to re-think what a composer's studio is, it's not Willy Wonka's factory. Your metaphors of "being in the trenches together" and "at the coalface" are more accurate!

YES - The discussion of ☕ 🍩 kind of was a landmine because it "stands for" such a fraught, wider issue. As long as I'm doing work that uses my abilities, there's NO objection to making coffee on the side, vacuuming the studio or whatever. The problem is the stories everyone's heard about "assistants" who end up fetching the dry cleaning and doing groceries while doing no technical work. It's understandable composers can't entrust work to a CA unless he/she can deliver, & onboarding a CA to the unique details of the process can be time consuming. If composers set clear expectations when hiring, & schedule onboarding smartly, it benefits themselves long term. There is no reason for an "I went through the tea-boy-until-they-give-you-real-tasks routine so you should too" culture. It underrates the availability of well-trained, knowledgeable people; also I believe it narrows the diversity of people who eventually become successful composers. I think a culture of clear expectations serves composers & CAs better and fits well with all the other points you made.

In short I reckon your video was full of good wisdom, just some people might have got their wires crossed when they connected your comments about hierarchy/respect with coffee & donuts.
 
The discussion of ☕ 🍩 kind of was a landmine because it "stands for" such a fraught, wider issue. As long as I'm doing work that uses my abilities, there's NO objection to making coffee on the side, vacuuming the studio or whatever. The problem is the stories everyone's heard about "assistants" who end up fetching the dry cleaning and doing groceries while doing no technical work.
Sure, but how do we know that's not part of the Miyagi School of Composing? Imagine the big day finally arrives when the assistant is given a chance to mix a track. But ... it's too muddy! The wise composer knowingly nods and says, "Make the coffee!" The Assistant reflexively, without even realizing what his hands are doing, applies his non-mud coffee making skills and instantly, the track sounds crisp and clean!
 
Sure, but how do we know that's not part of the Miyagi School of Composing? Imagine the big day finally arrives when the assistant is given a chance to mix a track. But ... it's too muddy! The wise composer knowingly nods and says, "Make the coffee!" The Assistant reflexively, without even realizing what his hands are doing, applies his non-mud coffee making skills and instantly, the track sounds crisp and clean!

Of course the true power will only come when you master the mute button... Tracks on, tracks off.
 
Sure, but how do we know that's not part of the Miyagi School of Composing? Imagine the big day finally arrives when the assistant is given a chance to mix a track. But ... it's too muddy! The wise composer knowingly nods and says, "Make the coffee!" The Assistant reflexively, without even realizing what his hands are doing, applies his non-mud coffee making skills and instantly, the track sounds crisp and clean!
LOL, this is perfect!!
 
I enjoyed the video.
I also had mini heart attacks whenever Christian described something that I learnt on the job as an assistant NEVER TO DO! What a minefield.

I basically agree with all of kmaster's comments.
I was an assistant/intern for the first time last year. I thoroughly enjoyed the time I spent with the composer and I came away much stronger.

I went in with the expectation of an apprenticeship. The reality was more of being a freelancer who needed to be reliable and available for sprints. Being a HOD/composer is unpredictable and assisting is just as unstable. This was the main expectation gap I encountered.

I'd be interested to see a part 2 discussing best practices/problem solving.
For example,
-What communication issues have you solved.
-Do you hire an assistant per hour, or per project and why?
 
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These comments are fascinating. One thing I did do is treat it as a given that you pay your assistants well. I know of composers who pay assistants but also offer full board and lodge. Internships are not great in some
Studios but they’re always a living wage and often part of a students 4 year diploma or degree.

Gordon Ramsey always likes to point out that even though he gets a bit shouty all of his crew moved with him when he went from exec to chef proprietor at his first restaurant.

I think that can be proof in the pudding. Many composers have assistants who have been with them for many years. I can say that I have had three assistants in the last 12 years (since setting up Spitfire) Sam Bohn was with me for 4 years and is now winning all sorts of awards and is very much in demand Stanley Gabriel is now insanely senior in Spitfire (head of product) Seb Truman is forging a path having set up a studio whilst continuing to work free lance at spitfire and Oliver Patrice Weder is head of composition at Spitfire and released his first album and sample library last year.

and

we’re all still talking.

I remember my Dad saying to me that he abused someone only once in his career as an actor. A prop hand fucked up and my Dad made some hollow threat for him not to fuck up again. That prop hand turned out to be Cameron Mackintosh.
 
I'd be interested to see a part 2 discussing best practices/problem solving.
For example,
-What communication issues have you solved.
-Do you hire an assistant per hour, or per project and why?

This a valid point, the market is rapidly changing and we all suffer from tighter budgets, time schedules and an ever growing competition. So the opportunity to form a good partnership between the composer and the assistant long term is getting harder by the day.
The video from Christian is a reminder of the world as it may be in some studios, but as we are rapidly moving into the future, the perspective is changing for many of us, and especially for those looking for a chance to be a composer assistant.

MOMA
 
People sticking with you, sadly, is not the proof you're looking for. At risk of sounding like fear-mongering:
People can have a scary amount of 'loyalty' to an abusive situation/person. For career situations this can often be fueled by the fear that "There'll never be another opportunity like working with this successful person, no matter how bad it gets here". To make this absolutely clear: I'm not saying you're being abusive. I honestly have no idea, but you sound like one of the most sincere people out there who genuinely cares about the wellbeing of others. I'm only saying that people sticking with you isn't the proof you need that you're doing things right. In the case of the example you mentioned, Ramsey, if his show is anything to go by, he's abusive as all hell. This might not translate into everyone leaving him and it may even result in some of his underlings becoming very successful, but that doesn't mean it's harmless.
And a show like Junior Masterchef shows that he can do perfectly well without the abusive behavior. He doesn't actually need it. Now if he were to not be abusive, what would happen to his underlings then? That'd be the better comparison to make.
 
Head chef in the kitchen is another good metaphor for how it does work / is supposed to work. Nobody ever sends their "compliments to the chefs"! ;)
 
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