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BBO Neptune & Orion: Woodwinds Tutti and Sections

Jimmy Hellfire

Senior Member
I wouldn't look at Neptune simply as being a "sketching tool". It's Woodwinds in tutti, which is a very useful tool to have. Of course you can build your own tutti from solo patches, but the advantage with tutti recordings is that the players actually performed together with a conductor in the same space, which will always give you a more plausible performance and sound.

Just like Andromeda gives you that "real" tutti orchestra sound, even though you could orchestrate your big tutti hits and chords all across your template using all dedicated orchestra sections, but it would never quite get you there 100%.
 

ptram

Senior Member
There is another problem, in building a Tutti preset from the Orion sections, and it is that you have to deal with octave doubling in a limited range. It wouldn't be worth the effort.

In any case, there are now the essential tools for sketching, even without considering the other merits of the individual libraries:

- Neptune is the quick way for woodwinds.
- Lyra+Musca for strings.
- Andromeda for brass (by turning off the other spot mics, with no worries for the bleeding from the other, overpowered sections in the room mics).

The other BBO libraries can be added as the sketch grows, adding their specialties. Other VSL libraries (Synchron, Synchron-ized of VI+MIR) can be added while finishing the piece.

Paolo
 
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The other BBO libraries can be added as the sketch grow, adding their specialties. Other VSL libraries (Syncron, Synchron-ized of VI+MIR) can be added while finishing the piece.

Paolo
This is the way I use BBO and Synchron SE.

I usually start with an ensemble and later split into sections.
The libraries harmonize very well, as long as you don't use the processed rooms too much in BBO. BBO is much more flexible (and also louder) in this respect.

The BBO Woodwinds also seemed to have more power than the 3 player ensembles in the SE versions.
But so far this is only a felt impression through the demos.
 

Guy Bacos

Senior Member
You could probably compare Neptune to Lyra, I remember reading some comments saying that strings recorded in octaves is not practical, I quite disagree, if we take Lyra (high strings in octaves), there is a certain tension in the sound I really love and don't think you can get that in any other way.
 
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wblaze

New Member
Will Neptune blend well with Synchronized Woodwinds?

I don't currently own any ensemble woods and am thinking that I could use Neptune to sketch out ideas or tutti parts and then use my Synchronized Woodwinds to bring out solo instruments.
 

markleake

Recovering sale addict
Wow. These woodwinds ensembles sound great... plenty of very useful articulations, very flexible microphones, etc., what's not to like here?! VSL have done such a fantastic job with the Big Bang series so far. Beyond their Synchron-ized Woods, this is the first time ever I've been so keen on a VSL series.

Downside is, I will at some point need to go through and consider which part to buy, then splash the cash... they are too great-sounding to ignore.

I really hope once all the series releases are out, that VSL offer some better to understand packages, or one overall package, or they re-offer each library again at their intro price. I find it hard to understand what all the libraries in the series are. Plus I've been holding off waiting to see what the whole series has in store for us, because it is so hard to know if I should invest while the series is still rolling out.

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One question/suggestion I have for VSL... in Vienna Synchron Player there is the Vel. XF button, which allows dynamics with mod-wheel (CC1). Would it be possible to add another button located just above that one to tell the player to automatically switch Vel. XF on and off for you? I mean based on when you click or key-switch between a long and short articulation. This way you won't need a CC lane to tell the player to turn on/off the Vel. XF.

I have Andromeda, and this is my main complaint with the user interface & usability of the library. I'm coming from a Kontakt player background where Kontakt does this automatically for you, and it makes so much sense, because I find this is the easiest way to play these types of articulations.
 
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Ben

Ben

VSL
Thread starter
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Would it be possible to add another button located just above that one to tell the player to automatically switch Vel. XF on and off for you? I mean based on when you click or key-switch between a long and short articulation. This way you won't need a CC lane to tell the player to turn on/off the Vel. XF.
Yes, this is possible:

Select the slot, go to the Edit tab and change the velocity crossfade setting from "Global" to "Off".
This will override the global VelXF setting for this slot and make it senstive to key-velocity instead.
1596999510699.png

Make sure to safe the changes as user preset, so you can recall your customizations quickly.
 

ptram

Senior Member
I've furtherly separated the ensembles in a mockup I'm working on, assigning the woodwinds (formerly various mixes from Andromeda) to Orion. Simply fantastic. BBO has become the perfect meeting point between the sketching libraries and the 'complete' ones.

However, building the final version from a sketch made with BBO could become a bit complicate: it may happen that replacing it with 'big' and 'complete' libraries will subtract something from the piece…

Paolo
 

markleake

Recovering sale addict
Yes, this is possible:

Select the slot, go to the Edit tab and change the velocity crossfade setting from "Global" to "Off".
This will override the global VelXF setting for this slot and make it senstive to key-velocity instead.
View attachment 34211

Make sure to safe the changes as user preset, so you can recall your customizations quickly.
Thanks Ben, that is very useful to know! I'll go through and create presets like this. :thumbsup:

I guess it doesn't quite do away with my request though... it would be good if the XF patches were already set like this, or there was a mechanism to do this more easily/automatically in the player.
 

ptram

Senior Member
it would be good if the XF patches were already set like this, or there was a mechanism to do this more easily/automatically in the player.
I like that you can freely choose the way to control dynamics. for example, you might want to draw curves of shorts' dynamics.

If you are using the library from a DAW or notation program, you can send a CC28 message as the first part of the selection bundle in the expression map/articulation set, and choose the way to control dynamics.

With notation programs like Dorico, another way could be creating a couple techniques "VelXF On" and "VelXF Off", with different values of CC28, and add them in the score just before the passage to be controlled one way or the other.

Paolo
 
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markleake

Recovering sale addict
I like that you can freely choose the way to control dynamics. for example, you might want to draw curves of shorts' dynamics.

If you are using the library from a DAW or notation program, you can send a CC28 message as the first part of the selection bundle in the expression map/articulation set, and choose the way to control dynamics.

With notation programs like Dorico, another way could be creating a couple techniques "VelXF On" and "VelXF Off", with different values of CC28, and add them in the score just before the passage to be controlled one way or the other.

Paolo
Sure. But just to be clear, I'm not suggesting VSL should remove functionality in the player. I'm suggesting a way VSL could add functionality to make it easier for those of us coming from other players that do this automatically.
 
I've furtherly separated the ensembles in a mockup I'm working on, assigning the woodwinds (formerly various mixes from Andromeda) to Orion. Simply fantastic. BBO has become the perfect meeting point between the sketching libraries and the 'complete' ones.

However, building the final version from a sketch made with BBO could become a bit complicate: it may happen that replacing it with 'big' and 'complete' libraries will subtract something from the piece…

Paolo
Glad you brought that up. What's been holding me back is that they're only ensembles.

I have the Woodwinds from the synchronized SE with the + versions, they also have Ensemble Woodwinds.

I'm still deciding whether to upgrade to the full Synchronized Woodwinds or to take the step with BBO. On the VSL website I can't see if the Synchronized Woodwinds also contain the Ensembles of the SE sections.

Difficult decision, I like both versions very much.
 

ptram

Senior Member
do this automatically.
If I’m not wrong, Synchron Player shows a label in the Edit tab, with what looks like the articulation's category. If articulations are indeed categorized, they could add a switch for the whole caegory.

Paolo
 

ptram

Senior Member
I'm still deciding whether to upgrade to the full Synchronized Woodwinds or to take the step with BBO.
They are obviously very different tools, and which one suits your needs depends on you.

What I can say is that louder is more fun, and BBO can be LOUD! :)

On a serious note, I’m more and more convinced that composing with ensembles gives that instant gratification that one sometimes needs to go on. But then, working on the details is also due.

Paolo
 
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