JF
Active Member
Here's the same passage using CSB & CSS (using notation program):
Again, same passage with CSB (using notation program).
Audiobro Modern Scoring Brass (MSB)
- Thread starter zolhof
- Start date
Here's the same passage using CSB & CSS (using notation program):
Again, same passage with CSB (using notation program).
Pablocrespo
Senior Member
All this Mahler makes me happy I am going to listen Mahler´s 3rd tonight, in an almost perfect theater!!
I think we should wait for detailed walkthroughs before judgement, I would love to dismiss this library because I can´t afford it now (exchange rate is killing me), but LASS has been a workhorse for me for 7 years, so I have faith in Audiobro.
I think we should wait for detailed walkthroughs before judgement, I would love to dismiss this library because I can´t afford it now (exchange rate is killing me), but LASS has been a workhorse for me for 7 years, so I have faith in Audiobro.
erica-grace
Senior Member
Well, what I was saying is it doesn't sound it. Not at all. Your example (maybe through no fault of your own) has a VERY limited dynamic range.
stevenson-again
Senior Member
Can someone help answer this rather than me trawling through the whole thread:
Is this a proprietary sample player? I need to be able to set up articulations via program change. I think I have the same issue with the new Spitfire player - I'll take a look at the end of the current project. Basically, if I can't switch via program change then I'm probably going to have to pass. The introductory video does not make it clear. Is it possible to download the manual without purchase? It might be a way to check to see if it can be set up to fit into my template.
Is this a proprietary sample player? I need to be able to set up articulations via program change. I think I have the same issue with the new Spitfire player - I'll take a look at the end of the current project. Basically, if I can't switch via program change then I'm probably going to have to pass. The introductory video does not make it clear. Is it possible to download the manual without purchase? It might be a way to check to see if it can be set up to fit into my template.
erica-grace
Senior Member
The site says:
Please keep in mind that the charts represent dynamics ranging from ppp through fff.
I don't know if that's supposed to mean the charts go from ppp through fff, or if the librray goes from ppp through fff.
I would think it would be the charts - ppp through fff is eight dynamic layers. While it's possible that he library is that much, I doubt it. I could be wrong though.
ProfoundSilence
Senior Member
I know this could be deemed as slightly demanding but can someone mockup that same Star Wars example with any of these...
CSB
SSB
BB
HOB
And if you do, then if we ever meet in person, I shall buy you some beers.
Not trying to be rude here, but someone stumbling through john Williams poorly is what I'm trying to avoid. People have made convincing mockups with random stuff - and people have also painfully misused libraries. My guess is that this library takes a lot of external spatial placement in a very un-typical way. If you rely on in-engine I can't imagine the appropriate results will be received. Best case scenario you will have to run all the audio out centered, including the internal instruments - then manually place them. Else I don't trust whatever black magic they are going to try to do within kontakt - it'll probably just suck the life out, flatten it - and then create weird phasey issues.
ProfoundSilence
Senior Member
It's a kontakt instrument. There are ways to control libraries with program changes via ksp script IIRC(cant remember who made one) That said, that's a bazaar request - as I'm not able to think of anything modern that works off of program changes(outside of maybe some midi hardware?)
stevenson-again
Senior Member
All my templates are set up for program changes - I switch around using instrument banks in Kontakt and it was Andrew K that showed me that maaany years ago. I have all my artics set up as midi multi's in logic and all my articulations loaded into standalone VEpro on a slave PC. Not only that I can mix and match and blend patches even between libraries and everything is on instant recall.
Main reason I gotta stay like that is backward compatibility, but it's by far the fastest most efficient way to do it. I also have pads on my controllers set to my most commonly used program changes. Logic artic IDs still isn't quite there in terms of usability.
ProfoundSilence
Senior Member
I mean, i'd imagine you could find a ksp script to help out with that.
stevenson-again
Senior Member
Nah - it's at the Logic end it needs to be program changes. The artic ID's are a nice idea in principle (and basically what I am doing with program changes) but they are too limited in how you can use them and visual feedback. There might be a way to make the work or work better....but you know....requires endless hours fiddling and experimenting I don't have...
AllanH
Senior Member
As a former trumpet player, I was/am really hoping that MSB delivers on its promise. I thought I heard very good short articulations in the the demos, and I like the mix of C and Bb trumpets.
I feel that most Bb trumpets sound strained above their Bb, so getting some non-strained clarity up to concert C would be very nice.
The "Starwars fanfare demo" left me speechless; I would have to dig out my Sampletank to replicate that. I really hope AudioBro gets moving on some professional demos, or these initial impressions will be difficult to overcome.
I feel that most Bb trumpets sound strained above their Bb, so getting some non-strained clarity up to concert C would be very nice.
The "Starwars fanfare demo" left me speechless; I would have to dig out my Sampletank to replicate that. I really hope AudioBro gets moving on some professional demos, or these initial impressions will be difficult to overcome.
ProfoundSilence
Senior Member
Sucks too, because the person probably put a lot of work into that, so on one hand I feel bad - but on another - this library is proving to be an issue of having to know how to work with it, rather than against it. The source material doesn't sound bad - just sounds a little dry, and it being center recorded + mangled into a stereo image is probably going to kill it. It can probably be fixed with plugins outside of kontakt - but I'd hold my breath for "truly dry demos" because this is going to end up being looked at more like a "less dry" Samplemodeling.
NoamL
Winter <3
For the sake of comparison, I've made a mockup of your short piece with... "another true divisi brass library".This is not a MSB Mockup !
Here it is for those interested.
Edit : This could obviously sound better with some EQ, but thought it would be better to keep the demo totally raw as an exemple.
The lack of higher dynamics is disappointing, but I really like the trumpets here! They have lots of character.
Duncan Krummel
Just Passing Through
So I posted this demo when I first got my hands on CSB, for which I was most impressed by that particular libraries lower, chorale-fitting dynamics. Picked up MSB immediately for the auto-divisi and extra brass that neither CSB nor HWB had provided. MSB is certainly a different beast, but the reputation that LASS set forward and that even Genesis still carried is that these libraries need to be tweaked to fit what you're using them for. I replaced the CSB instruments with their MSB counterparts in the second demo below.
CSB only has C trumpets available, whereas MSB offers both C and Bb (1st - C, 2nd - Bb, 3rd - Bb, 4th - C). With the CSB demo, I transposed the second solo trumpet down and bumped the MIDI up by a whole step to emulate a Bb trumpet, which was necessary to get a strong timbral difference between the two. For MSB, I used the first and third trumpets, so both were Bb. This was for the richer tone in the lower range. I preferred the strong legato transitions of CSB, so I increased the volume of transitions in MSB by about 1db each, and lowered the legato speed of each instrument to the lowest setting. I used the Scoring/Film Stage depth control preset on each and made a virtual semi-circle to create a seating arrangement. I also used the mix mics on each at their default, and then brought in some extra close mic to add bite. Sizzle is also set to it's highest setting (this is a very subtle effect). Vibrato is controllable in this library, something CSB does not offer control of. This is set by default to CC2, which actually makes it very easy to copy parts between CSS and MSB. Finally, I set attack control to Velocity (trying to get closer to a CSB workflow since I was copying MIDI data), and raised the velocity response on the Horn a bit to have it respond quicker to the MIDI data. All CC1 data was bumped up from where it was set for CSB, as this library is generally softer than CSB.
Other than the stage presets, all other internal processing was turned off. Similar to the CSB example, the only external processing was a little Spaces II War Memorial and then the Ozone Maximizer to match the volume of the examples.
Edit: I know user demos are in high demand, so - while I work full time - let me know if there are features you'd like to learn more about and I can post accompanying examples when I have a moment.
CSB only has C trumpets available, whereas MSB offers both C and Bb (1st - C, 2nd - Bb, 3rd - Bb, 4th - C). With the CSB demo, I transposed the second solo trumpet down and bumped the MIDI up by a whole step to emulate a Bb trumpet, which was necessary to get a strong timbral difference between the two. For MSB, I used the first and third trumpets, so both were Bb. This was for the richer tone in the lower range. I preferred the strong legato transitions of CSB, so I increased the volume of transitions in MSB by about 1db each, and lowered the legato speed of each instrument to the lowest setting. I used the Scoring/Film Stage depth control preset on each and made a virtual semi-circle to create a seating arrangement. I also used the mix mics on each at their default, and then brought in some extra close mic to add bite. Sizzle is also set to it's highest setting (this is a very subtle effect). Vibrato is controllable in this library, something CSB does not offer control of. This is set by default to CC2, which actually makes it very easy to copy parts between CSS and MSB. Finally, I set attack control to Velocity (trying to get closer to a CSB workflow since I was copying MIDI data), and raised the velocity response on the Horn a bit to have it respond quicker to the MIDI data. All CC1 data was bumped up from where it was set for CSB, as this library is generally softer than CSB.
Other than the stage presets, all other internal processing was turned off. Similar to the CSB example, the only external processing was a little Spaces II War Memorial and then the Ozone Maximizer to match the volume of the examples.
Edit: I know user demos are in high demand, so - while I work full time - let me know if there are features you'd like to learn more about and I can post accompanying examples when I have a moment.
Last edited:
erica-grace
Senior Member
Well, those are pretty close. I think CSB is better in spots, specifically the beginning, and maybe a bit overall - but only a by a little bit.
I know this could be deemed as slightly demanding but can someone mockup that same Star Wars example with any of these...
CSB
SSB
BB
HOB
And if you do, then if we ever meet in person, I shall buy you some beers.
Here's a rather quick pass with CSB. Could definitely use a lot more massaging, but I gotta get back to work now.
Still on the fence with MSB, CSB is just so good and flexible that I'm not sure I really need it.
Patrick de Caumette
Senior Member
Small comment: this library is deep and offers a lot of flexibility for line shaping.
It has a substantial learning curve in order to get the most out of it.
To think that you can fire it up for the first time and write a great demo, without learning all of its features first is not realistic.
It took me days to get comfortable with the possibilities.
At times, i questioned the ability of a certain articulation, to find out after talking to Audio Bro that i was doing it wrong.
Long and short notes are shaped by a number of controls
I also recommend using your own reverbs, even though there are certainly some good IR in there (look further down the list for scoring stages and brass halls: those are not apparent, you need to scroll down the list)
MSB may not give you instant gratification out of the box the way other libraries do, but once you spend time with it, you can have greater control and a more flexible tool to shape your music the way you hear it.
At least, that's my personal experience beta testing it...
It has a substantial learning curve in order to get the most out of it.
To think that you can fire it up for the first time and write a great demo, without learning all of its features first is not realistic.
It took me days to get comfortable with the possibilities.
At times, i questioned the ability of a certain articulation, to find out after talking to Audio Bro that i was doing it wrong.
Long and short notes are shaped by a number of controls
I also recommend using your own reverbs, even though there are certainly some good IR in there (look further down the list for scoring stages and brass halls: those are not apparent, you need to scroll down the list)
MSB may not give you instant gratification out of the box the way other libraries do, but once you spend time with it, you can have greater control and a more flexible tool to shape your music the way you hear it.
At least, that's my personal experience beta testing it...
Guy Rowland
Senior Member
...and thank you for doing so, Duncan, this is MUCH more like it. I liked both, the overall difference is that to my ears MSB edges it for realism. It's a bit more precise, and while CSB has a beautifully flattering tone MSB more than holds its own, with perhaps a little less aural hype, as it were, a little less artificially big.
I think the settings you used sound spot on, and this is the first vibrato I've noticed - sounds much better than I was expecting in context, given its an effect.
Duncan Krummel
Just Passing Through
I agree, though of course the benefit with CSB here is also that this was originally played in with CSB, so the nuances of reacting while you're writing the line is more intuitive there. What I particularly like about CSB, oddly enough, is what I also particularly like about MSB: CSB has a bit more room and fuzz in it, which make soft chorales like this sound more realistic. MSB, on the other hand, is extremely clean. This makes it extremely flexible, but a little harder to make convincing sometimes when exposed.
Thank you! I truly find MSB very playable, but it requires more CC writing to control each parameter of the sound, whereas CSB is straight-out-of-the-box gorgeous. Just my style, but I find the slider control for attack less intuitive than velocity, and the dynamics CC velocity-scaled less controllable than simple CC. But to each their own. There are a number of controls for tuning, so I am hoping there's flexibility to reduce the precision as well, create a bit more strain.
