Audiobro Modern Scoring Brass (MSB)

jpb007.uk

Active Member
I've had this for some months now, but only now beginning to play around with it.
I thought I'd create a template in VEPro 7 for all of the Full Mix instruments, and that was fine, until I loaded it up today on an external VEPro7 server (we have several of these on Windows Server 2012R2 with loads of memory). ANyway, I noticed that a couple of the instruments didn't seem to finish loading. So even when connected to the VEP VST Instrument on Cubase, the GUI wasn't fully loaded and the instrument doesn't play or respond in anyway.

This is the only VST instrument I've noticed that does this (we have alot of them).

Re-loading the template seems to solve the issue (after waiting another 30 mins for it to load). But its not going to stay in our studio template if this continues to happen.


Has anyone else had this issue?
 

purple

Active Member
I've had this for some months now, but only now beginning to play around with it.
I thought I'd create a template in VEPro 7 for all of the Full Mix instruments, and that was fine, until I loaded it up today on an external VEPro7 server (we have several of these on Windows Server 2012R2 with loads of memory). ANyway, I noticed that a couple of the instruments didn't seem to finish loading. So even when connected to the VEP VST Instrument on Cubase, the GUI wasn't fully loaded and the instrument doesn't play or respond in anyway.

This is the only VST instrument I've noticed that does this (we have alot of them).

Re-loading the template seems to solve the issue (after waiting another 30 mins for it to load). But its not going to stay in our studio template if this continues to happen.


Has anyone else had this issue?
I'm not sure if what you are describing is exactly the same, but sometimes instruments would load up with all the UI blank and sometimes a wall of text made from the text elements that would have been on the UI, but no functionality. Reloading is the only solution.
 

jpb007.uk

Active Member
I found the solution. Splitting the articulations up in to smaller groups. So 5 or 6 per midi channel seems to have worked. No idea why.
 

Eptesicus

Senior Member
So this is $475 in the black friday sale now.

Tempted,but still cant decide between this, infinite brass or junkie xl brass...

Sometimes I think this sounds good, then sometimes not.

I really wish they would put more than two demos up!!
 

MartinH.

Senior Member
Tempted,but still cant decide between this, infinite brass or junkie xl brass...
I thought you hated the sound of jxl? I find the selection you're undecided between weird. Seems to me like JXL and infinite are almost on opposing ends of what they're trying to do 0_o. I don't own any of these libs, but I'd go for infinite or CSB depending on how you like using them.
 

Eptesicus

Senior Member
I thought you hated the sound of jxl? I find the selection you're undecided between weird. Seems to me like JXL and infinite are almost on opposing ends of what they're trying to do 0_o. I don't own any of these libs, but I'd go for infinite or CSB depending on how you like using them.
?

I dont like the teaser sound no. That doesnt mean I have written it off!

Also, Junkie xl has small sections and soft articulations / pianissimo so likely will very versatile as well.

They are all contenders!
 

Seycara

Member
Reposting this from another MSB thread.
Bought full MSB yesterday:

Pros:
- Library is huge, lots of instruments and the shorts are very good
- Rare instruments like alto trombone/euphoniums
- The sound is a versatile scoring stage sound

However the cons are numerous:

Cons:
- The FF legato layer is very dodgy, there is an unacceptable amount of phasing/suspect sample editing no where near the excellence of CSB legato (audio example 1/2); at a MSRP of $800 I'm expecting Berlin Brass/CSB quality as even though CSB is smaller, it is half the price. The berlin solo trombone 1 legato in comparison sounds more balanced at the FF dynamic (audio example 3)
- Legato in general has a few gems (Trumpet 3 mf legato sounds great), but overall has many problems associated with balance of volume between notes in the same layer; I understand that there are many instruments but at this price point all the instruments need to have consistency which I am not finding
- This is an opinion, but the GUI is extremely large and less easily navigated compared to Berlin/CSB; I'm sure there are some out there who vibe with this kind of open design but for me MSB into the LADD GUI category for me...

Somewhat of a disappointment considering Genesis legato was so strong.
 

Attachments

Eptesicus

Senior Member
Reposting this from another MSB thread.
Bought full MSB yesterday:

Pros:
- Library is huge, lots of instruments and the shorts are very good
- Rare instruments like alto trombone/euphoniums
- The sound is a versatile scoring stage sound

However the cons are numerous:

Cons:
- The FF legato layer is very dodgy, there is an unacceptable amount of phasing/suspect sample editing no where near the excellence of CSB legato (audio example 1/2); at a MSRP of $800 I'm expecting Berlin Brass/CSB quality as even though CSB is smaller, it is half the price. The berlin solo trombone 1 legato in comparison sounds more balanced at the FF dynamic (audio example 3)
- Legato in general has a few gems (Trumpet 3 mf legato sounds great), but overall has many problems associated with balance of volume between notes in the same layer; I understand that there are many instruments but at this price point all the instruments need to have consistency which I am not finding
- This is an opinion, but the GUI is extremely large and less easily navigated compared to Berlin/CSB; I'm sure there are some out there who vibe with this kind of open design but for me MSB into the LADD GUI category for me...

Somewhat of a disappointment considering Genesis legato was so strong.
That first audio example is particularly bad.
 

robh

Senior Member
That first audio example is particularly bad.
I agree. However, I have MSB and I couldn't reproduce it - not from a solo trumpet. The closest I came to reproducing that 1st example was when more than one trumpet was playing.
@Seycara , was that "Audio Example 1" supposed to be a solo trumpet?

Rob
 

Seycara

Member
I agree. However, I have MSB and I couldn't reproduce it - not from a solo trumpet. The closest I came to reproducing that 1st example was when more than one trumpet was playing.
@Seycara , was that "Audio Example 1" supposed to be a solo trumpet?

Rob
Yes, try playing trumpet 2 solo at FF 127 mw legato
 

novaburst

Senior Member
In this regard, MSB is a bit a tough one: A good arrangement, edited with care, will sound great.
However, a not-so-good arrangement will rather not sound good.
So, it's not an instant gratification library. It will shine when the brass section is handled with knowledge, but it's definitely not the library that sounds epic out of the box.
Well worded, i think this is where the developer and user start to clash, on one hand the developer is creating a library for experienced musicians on the other hand there are not many that have the knowledge of orchestral arrangement,

I think there is an attitude that you press a key on your keyboard then every thing just falls into place.

well Izotope are certainly heading down this road with the mastering assistant just click the icon and hay you have just master mixed your session in two minutes, i dont think working with librarys is quite the same as yet maybe one day.
 

purple

Active Member
Well worded, i think this is where the developer and user start to clash, on one hand the developer is creating a library for experienced musicians on the other hand there are not many that have the knowledge of orchestral arrangement,

I think there is an attitude that you press a key on your keyboard then every thing just falls into place.

well Izotope are certainly heading down this road with the mastering assistant just click the icon and hay you have just master mixed your session in two minutes, i dont think working with librarys is quite the same as yet maybe one day.
I mean, there's a difference between a library needing a lot of work but being very rewarding.... and a library simply not having good content to begin with.... No amount of processing and detailed programming can turn a poorly recorded sample library into a well recorded one....
 

novaburst

Senior Member
I mean, there's a difference between a library needing a lot of work but being very rewarding.... and a library simply not having good content to begin with.... No amount of processing and detailed programming can turn a poorly recorded sample library into a well recorded one....
i have heard some beautiful muck ups and i mean beautiful, if i understand correctly the library is 180 gib of content, in that content there must be some good points.
 

Geoff Grace

Senior Member
I haven't used Modern Scoring Brass, but I know of more than one satisfied user. Here's what Nathan Furst had to say:

In this saga of a thread, I've read some fairly funky statements, and also some smart and educated ones. If you'll all indulge me, I'd like to add my 2 cents as well. You may find them to thoughtful words from experience, or simply a ranting diatribe from a nutcase. (spoiler alert, both are correct!)
Audiobro will be posting a demo from me soon (unless they think it blows), so that will also help you judge whether or not you feel I know what I'm talking about in this post.

MSB is a FANTASTIC brass library, with more real-time playable flexability WHILE still having a good "cleanly recorded" sound than any brass library I've used, and MSB will be the backbone for my brass template going forward. That's not to say that it's a "silver bullet" either. Some of the other libs I've been using will still be there for support, of course, but no other library I know of sounds as close to what I hear in the booth like MSB (read: recorded well and articulate, not polished and mastered). Plenty of libs sound like mix/mastered scores, but now you're "stuck" with that sound, and the seams start to show quickly as you work.
I personally have not found a library with the 'finished mastered' sound that ALSO is a consistantly playable and malleable workhorse from a composition standpoint (such as having musicians is).

I suppose there are two different ways of looking at it:

A - either you want a library where you hit a note and it sounds like soundtrack albums we all know and aspire to, but then when you actually have to write your own music you can't go far with it and it will quickly show it seams.
B - Or you want a library that takes some skill and setup, but can be used for any score in any style, and it's up to YOU to have to chops to know exactly how you want to write and produce it.

For me, MSB kinda strategically strattles the middle, but leans closer to B - Which I love.

I think a common misconception is that when you get a big live orchestra in a nice space, you set some mics up, record the performance, and now you're done! yeah, no.
Even in that ideal situation, there's a TON of really intricate (and interesting!) tricks with routing, side-chaining, stem-swaping, reverb tickling (read: NOT set-and-forget) yada yada, that goes into getting a great 'sound'. ESPECIALLY with scores in the last 15 years.

If you want to midistrate like a beast, it's not going to happen cause you bought ANY specific sample library. I know mockups from 15 years ago done with shit libraries (by today's standards) that still don't have many rivals to this day. The real answer is this: Know what you want to do, and know your shit. Know how to write and arrange EXACTLY how YOU want, and then know how to produce EXACTLY how you want. Trust me, there is no university, academy course, Masterclass, etc, that can do for you what getting in the trenches learning what you want and what process that actually requires will do for you. It's not an easy road, for sure, but it's definitely more rewarding. (And, on deadlines, learn to know instinctively when "90% right" is when it's time to move on to the next cue).

If your a professional composer, or midistrator, whatever, the choice between A and B is easy - buy everything and make your own jambalaya.
If that's not an option for you, then yes, you'll need to make choices that have tradeoffs on your approach/workflow. Both Pizza and Cheeseburgers are awesome, but you won't find them at the same restaurant, and if you do, you know it's going to be SHIT. If you REALLY want both Pizza and Cheeseburgers, and you want it to be really good, then learn your way around a kitchen, cause that's the only way it's gunna happen in a single meal. You dig?

IMO, MSB will require some time and setup to use it to it's potential - It's so flexible that I spent more set-up time implementing it than any other commercial library I've used yet. I spent the time to learn how I would use the lib, and programmed a majority of a Behringer X-touch to control any and all midi CCs for MSB. All attack options are toggled via buttons, and every single anything that is assignable to CC has been assigned so I can touch/perform it in real-time. Every. Single. One.
I set up my template so that MSB is routed through something like 6 different aux's that also have sends to other buses, yada yada. Getting mockups to sound great with any combo of libraries is a whole thing, man. With MSB, once you have it down, it's as fast to work with as any other library, but (IMO) much less frustrating to get it to sound really solid.

At the end of the day, I'll say this: on a action movie, I'll start my brass writing with MSB, on an intimate drama, I'd start my brass writing with MSB.

PS - I think the two demos that Audiobro posted are pretty damn good, while sounding quite a bit different (I think anyway) to what I turned in, both compositionally and sonically. To me, that's a pretty cool strength for a library.

I always find audio demos for sample libraries difficult to evaluate; it can be challenging to know what the skill-set/tool-set ratio is. SO, if any of you hear my demo and want to know anything about it, PM me and I’ll post and answer it publicaly with as specific a answer as possible. Not that I think it would be anything mind-blowing, but then you’ll be able to evaluate what the library IS vs. what I DID with it.
Alternatively, if you think it sucks, feel free to PM and tell me how much I stink. All are welcome! So...there ya go.

Also, I could spend a whole day getting into that Star Wars "demo", and why it's always a terrible idea to do sample demos using iconic scores that cost millions to produce and utilized the talent of only the best of the best on earth, but I don't have the energy to get into that...
Best,

Geoff
 

novaburst

Senior Member
I found the solution. Splitting the articulations up in to smaller groups. So 5 or 6 per midi channel seems to have worked. No idea why.
On there web page they recommend to do a batch re save, and samples will load faster., quoted batch re save takes 10 to 30 minutes to process but its worth doing,