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Audiobro Modern Scoring Brass (MSB)

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Additionally, Guy offered the insight that "[MSB is] a bit more precise, and while CSB has a beautifully flattering tone MSB more than holds its own, with perhaps a little less aural hype, as it were, a little less artificially big." This seems to be, ignoring workflow and articulations/instruments available, about exactly the right description of these two libraries in comparison. CSB has a warm, open sound that MSB doesn't out of the box have (you could definitely achieve that, however). And CSB still offers a good amount of flexibility in terms of ensemble building, by adding solo patches to the a2/a4 patches. I'm also more convinced by the sound of the repetitions in CSB, but I've also yet to try incorporating some of Guy's advice about the trumpets in particular. The legato is more pronounced in CSB, but you do have control over this in MSB. All in all, I think (I think) CSB will remain my primary back-bone brass library simply due to its integration with the rest of the Cinematic Studio series, its ease of use, and the quality of the sound (as long as the sound fits, as Nathan pointed out). But MSB covers a lot more ground and for any project allowing of more time, why not get mired in the details a bit?


You may be pleasantly surprised to know that the Bass Trombone patch offers the same range as the Tuba (pedal E + an artificial extension down to C). That extension sounds totally natural too, they did a good job of that.
I'd like to pick you up on the idea of matching MSB to CSB. So far, I still prefer the sound of CSB, but given that you have both, how would you go about getting MSB to have that full, roomy sound that CSB has right out of the box? Do you think you'll get there if you spend a bit more time with spacing and reverbs? How is the MSB stage tool? It seemed pretty great in Genesis. I'd love more examples from you regarding the spacing presets that they offer, if possible. Thanks!
 

Nathan Furst

Active Member
Just took a second listen to the two demos posted, and they’re pretty killer. If I was casually listening (not focused dissecting) to Daniel Beijbom’s track I would probably assume it was live.
I think most composers/music producers wouldn’t question it, let alone muggles. And if it was in a final show mix? Forget it.

I’m trying to figure out the mindset of peeps who would complain about these demos!
 

Guy Rowland

Senior Member
Just took a second listen to the two demos posted, and they’re pretty killer. If I was casually listening (not focused dissecting) to Daniel Beijbom’s track I would probably assume it was live.
I think most composers/music producers wouldn’t question it, let alone muggles. And if it was in a final show mix? Forget it.

I’m trying to figure out the mindset of peeps who would complain about these demos!
There's a couple of moments I don't love, but the great majority is superb, I agree (and some great writing from Daniel in particular). I hesitate to say this but I think there might be a bit of a feeling from some that it is less aurally hyped than we might have gotten used to.

I've made a start today on adding MSB to my template. It will take a few days in between my other work, I'm making separate longs and shorts patches and its a little time-consuming up front. So far I've added Trumpets, both Horns patches, all 3 trombone patches, Cimbassi and Tuba (still a load of stuff to go... nowhere near halfway really). For fun I stacked it all up at the end and had a blast. And the thing was... it sounded huge, rich, had bite and shifted a ton of air and all that, but it didn't go synthy at all. Usually when you do that and stack like crazy, it's hard to stay realistic. The clarity remained, and so did the realism. The key, I think, is that I had the auto-divisi on, so you never get those absurd numbers of players that don't translate to scale but do translate to artificiality - 4 notes of 12 horns doesn't sound like 48 horns. (I also disabled the on board reverb which I think sounds great on an individual patch actually, and replaced with Seventh Heaven's scoring stage - I think when adding several instruments that de-muddies it a little too).

I think all that is what I hear that I really like in those demos. Lots going on, sounds rich and full, but not hyped.
 

Hanu_H

Senior Member
I think some people were expecting another brass library with instant trailer sound. But how I hear MSB, is that it's more realistic and raw, like a real recordings of a brass instruments. It needs to be mixed to sound like a finished product but the magic is, that you are not tied into a certain sound or mix. And with a drier more focused sound, you don't have to write so much for the samples. It's pretty much the same approach as with LASS and I am sure this is going to be my next brass library.
 

Robert_G

It really is just an expensive hobby for me
I love the demos for the most part. It's worth 600 bucks....unfortunately, 600 is too much no matter how good it is....for this hobby guy. If I was composing for a living...I'd have already bought it.
 

Noeticus

Motion Picture Producer
I’m trying to figure out the mindset of peeps who would complain about these demos!
Hello Nathan,

I believe some of the complaints about Audiobro MSB demos is due to hyper-focusing. When the mind tries to find fault it often hears it, even if it is not necessarily there. Our caveman brains can turn the wind howling through the trees into a threat even when there is none.
 
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dcoscina

Senior Member
I think some people were expecting another brass library with instant trailer sound. But how I hear MSB, is that it's more realistic and raw, like a real recordings of a brass instruments. It needs to be mixed to sound like a finished product but the magic is, that you are not tied into a certain sound or mix. And with a drier more focused sound, you don't have to write so much for the samples. It's pretty much the same approach as with LASS and I am sure this is going to be my next brass library.
I wouldn't presume. Being a brass player I have pretty high expectations of libraries in this field and to my ears, it just doesn't sound markedly better or improved compared to other ones already on the market. The cut off is the real indicator for me and it sounds artificial. Believe me, I'm a huge AudioBro fan and still use LASS routinely. I don't enjoy typing in my disapproval of libraries and usually don't actually. But I'm a little disappointed in what I've heard thus far... :(
 

Duncan Krummel

New Member
I'd like to pick you up on the idea of matching MSB to CSB. So far, I still prefer the sound of CSB, but given that you have both, how would you go about getting MSB to have that full, roomy sound that CSB has right out of the box? Do you think you'll get there if you spend a bit more time with spacing and reverbs? How is the MSB stage tool? It seemed pretty great in Genesis. I'd love more examples from you regarding the spacing presets that they offer, if possible. Thanks!
SO, this may be a bit of an information overload, but I put together another little 1-minute chorale and tried to match the panning of CSB, then ran it with every available depth control preset. Yes, this took a while to upload, and may not actually be as helpful as a written snippet accompanying each preset, but here you go. This also doesn't really attempt to match MSB's ambience to CSB, but finding the right preset may be a good first step. Or just forget about matching CSB's ambience and just find one that sounds good for MSB (I really want to eat my cake too)!

HERE

Edit: Trying to figure out how to post a Soundcloud Playlist....
 

Go To 11

Member
SO, this may be a bit of an information overload, but I put together another little 1-minute chorale and tried to match the panning of CSB, then ran it with every available depth control preset. Yes, this took a while to upload, and may not actually be as helpful as a written snippet accompanying each preset, but here you go. This also doesn't really attempt to match MSB's ambience to CSB, but finding the right preset may be a good first step. Or just forget about matching CSB's ambience and just find one that sounds good for MSB (I really want to eat my cake too)!

HERE

Edit: Trying to figure out how to post a Soundcloud Playlist....
This is amazing! Such a comprehensive and useful playlist. Beautiful track by the way. The long trumpet notes sound so lovely, and the pauses in the music allow us to hear the reverb tails nicely.

I listened to as many as I could before I started to go insane, thank you. I think you matched the panning really nicely. Perhaps CSB has yet still a touch bit more stereo separation, to my ears? Did you do it within the stage placement tool? Could you share a screenshot of the layout you chose?

66. MSB Brass - Brass Hall sounds really good to me. In fact, I think these examples have tipped my choice in favour of MSB. Thanks!
 
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Hanu_H

Senior Member
I wouldn't presume. Being a brass player I have pretty high expectations of libraries in this field and to my ears, it just doesn't sound markedly better or improved compared to other ones already on the market. The cut off is the real indicator for me and it sounds artificial. Believe me, I'm a huge AudioBro fan and still use LASS routinely. I don't enjoy typing in my disapproval of libraries and usually don't actually. But I'm a little disappointed in what I've heard thus far... :(
Well that's why I said some people, not everyone. I like it, but I can understand if someone else doesn't. I don't really need a new library, I got so many already. But if I buy one, it has to give me some new tools. I have liked what I've heard but would like to hear more demos as well.
 

sinkd

Senior Member
Here's another CSB comparison, but also combined. A little less successful trying to work with MSB here, I think. I really wish there were a way to change the depth control presets for all instances at once, but that may be beyond what Kontakt can handle. It may also be interesting to run a demo using only VSS2, similarly to MIR. May be an easier, if not more limited, way of achieving a good seating/depth.




Edit: Should have clarified this point, no processing other than level matching with Ozone's Maximizer (unless you count MSB's depth control as processing).
Actually really like the sound of the high trumpets in CSB.
 

Go To 11

Member
SO, this may be a bit of an information overload, but I put together another little 1-minute chorale and tried to match the panning of CSB, then ran it with every available depth control preset. Yes, this took a while to upload, and may not actually be as helpful as a written snippet accompanying each preset, but here you go. This also doesn't really attempt to match MSB's ambience to CSB, but finding the right preset may be a good first step. Or just forget about matching CSB's ambience and just find one that sounds good for MSB (I really want to eat my cake too)!

HERE

Edit: Trying to figure out how to post a Soundcloud Playlist....
This is officially your fault! Many thanks for all your efforts here so far.
 

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Duncan Krummel

New Member
This is officially your fault! Many thanks for all your efforts here so far.
:2thumbs: You'll really enjoy it!

As for the stereo separation, I realized about halfway through bouncing files that I could probably match CSB better by widening each part, but at that point I was not about to change course! That said, here's a version with the Brass Hall preset with a quick ear-matched widening of each part:


And ultimately, here are screenshots of the placement I used for each part:
MSB Trp 1.png MSB Trp 2.png MSB Hrn.png MSB Trm.png MSB Tba.png
 
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